The Chaos Episode

 Episode 11 dives into the phrase "que sera sera" ("whatever will be, will be") and explores its meaning, origins, and philosophical implications, especially in relation to fate, control, and acceptance.

Key Points:

1. Introduction and Word of the Episode

• The episode begins with Adam unaware of the topic, creating a spontaneous and candid conversation.
• The phrase "que sera sera" is discussed as the word of the episode—a phrase meaning "whatever will be, will be," originally Italian, adopted into Spanish, and then English.
• The hosts note that the phrase is not grammatically correct in any of those languages but has become a comforting saying about accepting the future.

2. Meaning and Interpretation

• They distinguish between "it is what it is" (a past-looking phrase about acceptance) and "whatever will be, will be" (a future-oriented phrase about acceptance).
• The phrase can be comforting in times of overwhelm, suggesting acceptance of things beyond control.

3. Fatalism vs. Providence

• The hosts discuss fatalism—the belief that all events are predetermined and inevitable—and contrast it with the idea of providence, which implies a purposeful guiding force (often spiritual).
• The conversation touches on how personal beliefs shape whether one views life events as random fate or providential.

4. Chaos Theory

• Chaos theory is introduced as another worldview, illustrating how small actions (like a butterfly flapping its wings) can have large, unpredictable effects.
• The hosts debate whether chaos theory implies lack of control or interconnectedness and how it compares to fatalism and providence.
• They use examples like the movie Jurassic Park to illustrate chaos theory’s concept of sensitive dependence on initial conditions.

5. Human Desire and Control

• They reflect on how human desires and choices interact with these theories.
• Even if some outcomes are predetermined or chaotic, individuals still have agency to make choices and do "the next right thing."
• This middle ground balances acceptance of uncertainty with personal responsibility.

6. Practical Reflections

• The hosts share personal anecdotes, such as giving food to someone in need, as examples of purposeful action within uncertain outcomes.
• They discuss the emotional weight of believing every action could have massive consequences (e.g., the butterfly effect) and how that can feel overwhelming.

7. Conclusion

• No definitive conclusion is reached, but the episode emphasizes that discussing these ideas helps in understanding and processing them.
• The hosts affirm that talking—even without a clear plan or outcome—is valuable for exploring complex thoughts and feelings.

Overall, Episode 11 thoughtfully examines the phrase "que sera sera" as a lens to discuss fate, control, acceptance, and the philosophical tensions between fatalism, providence, and chaos theory. It encourages listeners to find a balance between surrendering to what will be and actively engaging in life’s choices.

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Any views expressed on this podcast are those solely of the hosts and is for entertainment purposes only. None of the content is medical advice or financial advice.

Special thanks to Tim Wright aka CoLD SToRAGE for his permission to use the song Operatique.

Transcript

I Hate Talking: 0:30

All right. Welcome back, y'all. We are on episode 11 of I Hate Talking. And Adam has no idea what we're talking about today or what our word of the day is. So how do you feel before we move into this? How are you feeling at this moment? I'm feeling a bit uneasy, perhaps a bit out of control, and in general, Off kilter. Are you gonna delete this episode and I'll never air? We could always just have episode 12 air and people would be like, where did episode 11 go? That's Stephanie's episode. And it would be the mystery episode forever. So, sometimes Adam will ask me, do you want to know what we're talking about? I'm like, no, just hit record. I'll figure it out. This is fun. So, I love that the tables are turned and you are the one. Without the power or knowledge. I feel so powerful. But I won't keep you waiting any longer. Today's word of the episode is a phrase. This may be our first phrase, is it? It is not. Oh, OK. Well, good. Our phrase is que sera sera. So our very first phrase was active listening. So if you, if you, if you're paying attention and actively listening, then you would have retained that information unless perhaps you are a visual learner and perhaps uh did not pick up on the phrase of the episode, our very first phrase, active listening. So now we have another phrase that we are embarking upon. OK Sara sera. Yes. And I don't even think that's English. I think that means it is what it is. -- sera -- sera. Yes, it means whatever will be will be. It is Italian. So as I noted, I did indicate that that is not an English phrase. And when we've done a little offline research into this, it appears that it is yet again some different languages that are borrowing from one another back and forth because this originated in the Italian language, then became adopted by the Spanish language, perhaps I think even. The Spanish language spoken in Spain and not Mexico and then eventually became part of the English lexicon, que sera sera. Right, yeah. So, um, like you said, when we looked it up quickly. Um, I know it from the song from Dorsay, and um. Sometimes I've seen it to myself, if I'm frustrated or overwhelmed with something, just knowing that it's, it'll work out in the end, and it's OK. But if you just Google it, it will explain that, yes, it's French, it's Italian, it's not grammatically correct. So it gets a little overwhelming. But I want to discuss today, since I have the power in this hot seat. The thought of whatever will be will be. And how that applies to us talking to one another or in our internal thoughts. Of whatever will be will be. And it is an interesting relationship to the phrase that came to my mind when I heard the original phrase of the episode, que sera sera, where I was thinking of it is what it is. And that is more of a, I think, historical look or a past perspective on something that has occurred. Rather than the actual meaning, which is. It will be What it will be, which is more of a future context to it. Right? I like that you pointed that out because at first glance, it seems very the same or similar. As you're thinking about it, it's definitely different. What is what is. It is a past tense and it's very much, in my opinion, just throwing your hands up, why even and try. But whatever will be, will be is looking at the future. And Having instead of your hands up, like I give up, your hands are open to accepting what is coming. Is it though, or is this yet again fatalism packaged in a cute phrase that we have no control over what will be. Do you think I'm a fatalist? I think to some degree, we both are. Elaborate So I think that one of the things that we touched on in just the very last episode was our similar ideas that we arrived at separately, yet at the same time, and we may even consider those things providential and that we have seen a number of things in our past. And in our lives that we would categorize in that same vein as being providential that were completely outside of ourselves in terms of the decisions that we either made or avoided making and that. In some form or fashion that is akin to fatalism, though I think there is a key difference there that with the providential nature of our lives, we would attribute that to a higher power, whereas the fatalist for all intents and purposes just attributes that to pure fate that does not have any particular Cognition about it. OK, I am thinking in real time what you just said. So, Again, like you said, with our podcast, how I was like, hey, I had this idea. 2 hours ago, and you're like, yes, I already have this idea and this is what it is, and we're moving forward. And I'm like, well, that's in my head I'd call that Providence. Yes, that's providential. We have to do this. Or even in the future, talking about our origin story, our Genesis story. of how our relationship is in my head very providential. So are you saying that if I didn't classify myself as religious, It would just be fatalism. That is, I think the difference that there are many flavors of the same thought process. And that There is certainly, I think in my view of also being an absolutist that there is one that is absolutely true and one that is absolutely false and there only can be one view that is right, but that in terms of how you either view your past experience and your future destination will either be providential, fatalist, or Those that would adhere to the theory of chaos. Oh, I think you hate that theory probably. I do. The amount of chaos in our house as it is can be overwhelming for you. So, the whole theory on it, I'm sure is nightmare. But if a butterfly does slap its wings in another country. Do we have a storm here? Elaborate So the chaos theory would say yes, but is it also not incorrect to say that the butterfly flapping its wings in order to create that scenario is perhaps the fate of those that experienced the storm or even more so that Providence has Foreordained those people to endure the storm. At the cost of the butterfly flapping its wings. Do I need to look up what gas there you mean? Are you saying that people believe that like if a butterfly flaps its wings, that you get a tornado here in America? That is what Chaos theory states that is one of its key tenets that it would describe itself with. And I think we have to look no further than the classic movie, Jurassic Park to see the results of the chaos theory in practice. I saw a meme today and it said my toxic trait. is that if Jurassic Park was real, I would still go to it. And it made me laugh. So it makes me laugh thinking about it. What photo was associated with this meme? It was just like. Trees burning. Interesting. So, I'm struggling to understand. Can you elaborate more? When you said that we are both. Maybe slightly fatalist, it definitely brings a bristle reaction to me, like, in my head that's a negative connotation. But also when you're talking about the chaos theory, this butterfly in South America affecting my life currently. Like, well, whatever that butterfly does if that's affecting me. Hey Sarah, Sarah. So how are those different? Obviously, people are gonna have different opinions, what's better or worse. Why am I having such a negative reaction to One thought in theory. So based on what I personally know about you. I think there is one aspect that I can explain, but maybe for our listeners in general that also have a negative connotation associated with fatalism is a couple of things. One, you may be hearing the word fatal, which is deadly and just the sound of the word fatalism. Reminds you of death. So that may be one aspect that has no relationship to the actual theory of fatalism, but it is calling into remembrance, something that you associate with the word fatal and that being deadly. So my brain is instantly just black, -- like that's -- not good. That's not good. The other thing that I think fatalism indicates is that you do not have control, that your fate is set, you have no impact over it by the decisions that you make and therefore you have no control over what will happen that you will arrive at your particular destination regardless of any decision that you make. And again, that lack of control is particularly offensive to somebody that thinks of the concept of fatalism. Now, more personally, I think that. fatalism in your mind, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, again harkens back to that lack of control and the lack of a particular purpose of your destination, whereas your concept of providence has a certain aspect of having a particular destination in mind for your good. That you will arrive at regardless. Yeah. Um, as I'm thinking about that, I think we're spot on, at least for myself, I don't know about anyone else listening. I do not like the idea that everything is laid out and it doesn't even matter. Which I choose or what path I take. If I'm driving, do I turn left or right? It doesn't matter. In my head, that's fatalism. Uh, maybe a misunderstanding. That's what I'm thinking. But like you said, when I'm thinking about like a grander purpose, I'm using the word Province, I think it's the purpose of it. I purposely chose to drive right, even if I didn't know that was the reason. Maybe there's somebody on the side of the road today, we rolled down our windows, we had a grocery pickup. And there was somebody with a sign needing help. So we just gave him a little bit of the food in our grocery bag, because we are able to do that. Yes, I intentionally bought everything we had. But our lives are not severely impacted by that loaf of bread and some canned goods we gave him. And hopefully his is better impacted by that. So my head, I'm thinking, I drove past him with a car full of food, so I can give it to him. That is Providence. Not Just what it is, and I don't have a choice in that matter. Exactly. And again, to relate it back to the classic movie, Jurassic Park, how can you determine which way the water droplet will roll? Mhm Yeah. So, human desire, I think still plays a part in any of these scenarios, whether you subscribe to Providence or fatalism or chaos theory. We know that Malcolm's intent in that scene was not to demonstrate the actual aspects of chaos theory, but in an attempt to fulfill his own human desire to engage with the fair doctor. Hm. I love that y'all. Adam did not know 10 minutes ago what we were talking about. So that's amazing that you can just pull this from your brain. In fairness, -- I didn't know what we were talking about 15 minutes -- ago. And that also is a bit of an aspect of fatalism and the theory of fatalism is that it is related to the human condition and that the humanity in their own desire is. Destined to their certain fate. And circling back to the first phrase, in my head, I hear this often and just the chaos of life comes just hearing the que sera sera. And to me that's comforting. Like, it's crazy right now. I want to pull my hair out or just give up. Just accept it. And what's gonna happen is gonna happen, and I'm gonna do the next right thing. So I think that's the middle ground between um fatalism and chaos theory, saying it's gonna happen. But I can still do the next right thing. I can still continue to be kind, or I can still continue to plow forward in this. Even if I know the outcome at the end is not up to me. And I think that would be more aptly described by the theory that you do have your own control over your destiny, that the choices you make do have an impact on your particular experience or the outcomes that you achieve. So how would that line up with what will be will be? You could easily say, hey, what will be will be if my family wants dinner. I'll get dinner. I'm just gonna sit on this bed. And scroll YouTube. But in reality, if you said that, we would not get a paycheck. We would not have money to do the grocery pickup order I did earlier thated our family and also fed another family on the side of the road. And when you get to the pure concepts of chaos theory, it will actually state that those choices that we make are critical to The output that we experience because if we choose to let the butterfly escape or we crush it, that because of that choice, we can actually impact whether there is a massive deadly storm. Or if there is not. That's a lot to a weight to carry on yourself. We have a uh the house in front of our home. But we encourage bees and hope that the honey bees come. Uh, pollinate our garden and all the community around us cause we know how important bees are and how they are needed for food and flower production. But If we did not have that house, I would not feel an intense sense of guilt. Or we were destroying our garden or Our community gardens of produce. So by what you're saying, I feel like there would be so much pressure on Any step I take. What if I crush that butterfly? What if I crush that bee? Or that ants, they all, even though sometimes they seem like a nuisance. They have purposes. Here in our ecosystem. And that seems overwhelming that every thought, every step I take is gonna impact our future. But does it not? I don't want it to. And that's why you are a fatalist. Are you still a fatalist or are you now more on the chaos theory then as we're discussing this? I think we are all meant to do what we are all meant to do. OK, what is in between a fatalist and chaos theory? I want to be the middle. So there may be something in between where that you have the theory of rationalism or the the theory of game theory where certain people's actions are to some degree predictable because they will act in either the most sensible and rational. Output or in some form or fashion, the best way that has the best outcome for them or those that they care about. So that would be the game theory aspect of decision making as well as the rationalist type of decision making. Well, game theory sounds super fancy, rationalist sounds super smart and reasonable. So, I like both of those. Are these things that based on education, you learn or life experiences? Are you pretty much set? On one theory or another based on how you were raised. Well, I suppose that depends on what theory you describes to because if you are a fatalist, then you will subscribe to the theory that you are predestined to. That's funny. So, a lot of interesting things that we've discussed. I don't know if we've come to any particular conclusions, but that's OK because we are simply discussing these things with the intent to come to further insights and understanding. So what did you feel like? This episode, not knowing what we're discussing and in all reality, we. Moved around slightly But walking into this now, after 20 minutes or so of discussion, how do you feel not knowing what we were gonna talk about? Well, I suppose in one sense you could say that whatever we were going to talk about is what we talked about. So, from your friends, I, I hate talking. Remember, it is only through talking that we begin the journey to understanding.