Independence and Autarky

 Warning: this episode contains references to 9/11, various wars, and death statistics. 

Episode 14 of "I Hate Talking" is a July 4th (Independence Day) special that reflects on American independence, language, and the complexities of U.S. history and identity.

Key Topics:

• Independence Day Context:
  The episode opens with the hosts expressing their enthusiasm for July 4th and explaining its significance as the day the United States declared independence from England in 1776.
• Word of the Episode – "Autarky":
  The featured word is autarky (spelled A-U-T-A-R-K-Y), meaning self-sufficiency, typically applied to societies, communities, or states and their economic systems. The hosts discuss its Greek roots and contrast it with "autocracy," which refers to absolute rule by one person. While "autarky" focuses on a group or individual's ability to subsist independently, "autocracy" is about exercising control over others.
• Glossary of Revolutionary War Terms:
  The hosts mention encountering a glossary of nearly 100 Revolutionary War terms, noting that most relate to weapons, fortifications, or political leanings. They provide an example ("superior slope") and express interest in the specialized language of warfare. Here is the link to the Revolutionary War glossary that was mentioned in the episode. 
• Reflections on America:
  The conversation shifts to what the hosts love or dislike about America. They discuss the United States' role as a global "police officer," sometimes prioritizing international interests over domestic needs. They reference a quote about the U.S. potentially invading itself to "free" itself from its own actions, highlighting internal contradictions and criticisms.
• Veterans and Public Recognition:
  The hosts share personal anecdotes about teaching their children to thank military veterans, reflecting on mixed responses from veterans and the complexities of public gratitude-some appreciate the recognition, while others may not want reminders of war.
• Historical Memory and 9/11:
  The hosts discuss how the meaning of "9/11" is fading for younger generations who did not experience it directly. They note the importance of context in collective memory and history education.
• Comparisons of Loss in War:
  The episode compares civilian casualties from the 9/11 attacks (2,996 deaths) to those from the 2003 Iraq invasion's "shock and awe" campaign (about 6,616 Iraqi civilians killed), and to U.S. military deaths in subsequent conflicts (over 7,000 service members). They also reference the estimated American deaths during the Revolutionary War (25,000–70,000), noting that only a fraction were combat deaths.

Conclusion:
The episode uses the occasion of Independence Day to explore the meanings of self-sufficiency, national identity, the consequences of war, and the evolving ways Americans remember and discuss their own history. The tone blends personal reflection, linguistic curiosity, and sober consideration of the costs of conflict.

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Any views expressed on this podcast are those solely of the hosts and is for entertainment purposes only. None of the content is medical advice or financial advice.

Special thanks to Tim Wright aka CoLD SToRAGE for his permission to use the song Operatique.

Transcript

I Hate Talking: 0:30

Welcome to episode 14 of I Hate Talking. Hi everyone. And happy 4th of July. Yes, if you're listening to this the day it drops, it is the 4th of July, also known in America as Independence Day. I love Independence Day. I love just the fireworks and all that. So I'm very much looking forward to celebrating. Indeed, and this for those that may be listening overseas is the day, one day out of the year that America or the United States of America celebrates its independence as it has declared its independence from the English back in July of 1776 on this 4th day of the month. Mhm. So that does bring us to a word or phrase of the episode, and our word or phrase of the episode is aury. Ah tartar. Yes, this is one that we were ourselves not familiar with and as you can even hear us maybe a bit stumbling over even the pronunciation and it actually is a word that I don't know if I've ever seen in print before or ever heard. So we'll actually give the spelling of it in this particular instance. Because it is so far removed from anything that we've encountered. So the spelling on this Aarki is A U T A R K Y. Awesome. And this particular word is the characteristic of being self-sufficient and it is usually applied to societies, communities, states and their economic systems. So it is a bit different than a political system, whereas this word is describing more the self-sufficiency of a group of people. Can you use it independently too, as for one person or is it usually in a group setting? So it is sometimes used to describe a person, uh, and that would be something that is in this usage attributed to something in the vein of stoicism where that person is neither unaffected by the scenarios or situations that they find themselves in. But also is sufficient in and of themselves to be able to endure those particular things that they are dealing with. Do you know where it comes from? Is it from the Greek or? So this does have Greek roots and it is from a word that means self or self-sufficient. Uh, it does actually even mention some things in terms of the stoics using this particular word. Uh, the other thing that it does relate to in terms of more of a political system is autocracy. So that is actually a bit different in terms of the word and its definition where an autocrat is going to be someone that has uncontrolled or unlimited authority over others. So whereas the Outarchy is more dealing with a single individual or the group in terms of their own self-sufficiency, the autocracy will be more in terms of how a person or government. Impacts others. So the direction of control or the direction of how things flow is quite different between those two words. OK, can you say that one more time? The difference because it sounds very similar. It does sound very similar. So autocracy, the political system, or if you have a person that is serving as an autocrat, they are a government or person respectively. That has uncontrolled or unlimited authority over others. So another way of saying this would be an absolute monarch, uh, and in fact, maybe even the king of England. OK. And then the other side of the coin, as it were, is Okarki, which is again describing more of a ideology or an economic approach or even a description of an individual as being self-sufficient. They are not exacting control on others, they are simply being able to subsist on their own. Awesome, thanks for that. So as we were doing some research for this particular episode and trying to find some words or phrases for this particular July 4th episode, we also encountered a glossary of revolutionary war terms that has, I believe, nearly 100 different terms. And as we're reading through this, it is interesting to note of just how many different words. Describe either the weapons of warfare or just the particular things that are built for warfare. Just as one example here, superior slope. Two words that we, I think probably know in our lexicon superior, that of being better or greatest, and slope as in terms of not being flat. But when you use these things together in terms of superior slope, as it relates to the battlefield, it is actually the slope between the banquet and the exterior crest of a fortification. Which likewise then have their own definition within this particular glossary. So we'll put this glossary in the show notes if anyone is interested in learning more about this. Uh, I would say probably 70 to 80% of these particular terms are in relation to either weapons or fortifications. And their exact description and the other part of the glossary is describing the political leanings and some of the things that were going on from the uh political side of things. Hm, cool. So that brings us to some of the things that we will talk about in this episode in terms of what is the United States and some of the things that perhaps we think about it or love about it or even hate about it. Oh, OK. Um, right before, just a real quick tangent side note, over a decade ago now. You were working at the time in British Columbia, and I came to visit you once, and uh we met this nice couple, we went to lunch with them. And they were explaining how in Canada, they are still under English rule. And um Obviously, Queen Elizabeth was still alive back then. And they were talking about how much they love her, and they love the British monarch. And it was several minutes of them talking about their love for England, and how they were so glad Canada was part of England. And they turned and they said, actually, we don't even know how you guys separated from England. I'm like, oh, that's. Awkward and uncomfortable conversation. Indeed, yes, it was, uh, by no means a peaceful resolution, uh, in terms of uh exactly how that transpired. America, our conversation with them was peaceful. Yes, -- our conversation was -- peaceful, stumbled a little bit like, oh well, you know, I think there was like a little bit of a war, like totally minimized it, but. Exactly, yes, I was referring definitely to the 1770s in terms of the non-peaceful goings on. Our, -- our lunch with them was peaceful and we left peacefully -- indeed. So anyways, your question was, what do we love? Or he about. America? You can go first. So I read an interesting quote the other day and it said something to the effect of, if the United States knew of the atrocities committed by the United States, the United States would invade the United States to free the United States from the tyranny of the United States. Oh, that's unfortunate but true. So there is a hint of truth to that because I think in some form or fashion as of late in these modern days, the United States has come to be the global police officer in terms of trying to regulate the global political realm in terms of doing things in what many would consider the best interests of humanity, but others may consider. The best interest of the United States. Yeah, I think. I mean, there's a whole bunch with that. But I do think something that I personally do love about America is that As a whole, people seem to care. But there definitely can be some overreach there. And when I tried to use some large search engines to try to find the source of this particular quote, uh, it was interesting that I could not actually find this. Uh, and instead that a number of these search engines took me to the United States Department of State on things that they are doing within the global theater as well as some of the remarks made by our current president, uh, Joe Biden, as well as some interesting resources in terms of uh the American war machine and how there was, to quote the subtitle of one of the books that came up, how a nation conquered the world but failed its people. Mm. I think That's sad, but um. That can be used even with so many people, right? Like famous people even, like, on a much smaller scale. These famous people that possibly. Do have a lot of success in life and in their career. But then their home life is a wreck or things like that that um that's a cop out to say, You can't be good at everything. So if you're really, really great at your job, You might not have the closest relationship at home. So likewise, if you're really, really Good at Whatever America does. And then overseas, and then here, our people are struggling. Yes, I think that uh that is perhaps some of the context that 1 may hear when we are talking about how the United States does things in the global political system where they are perhaps giving aid to other countries but neglecting their own civilians, is that what you're referring to? Yes. And I think that is something that is in uh some of the National commentary in terms of how the United States and its people treat its veterans or the homeless or those that are struggling with particular things from a societal or Economic perspective while we are sending money overseas and that is something that again I think we in my own personal opinion are overstepping our particular requirements uh or not prioritizing them appropriately in terms of where we have our focus on either helping our own citizens versus those global citizens in other nations. Yeah, and I mean. The way our veterans, most of our veterans are treated, it is really sad cause we literally owe our lives to them. Um One thing we've intentionally done with our children. is when they see a vet, usually the older men, um, and that proudly wear their hats. We have our kids approach them and thank them for their service. Um, And one of our, well, some of our kids don't even have to be prompted anymore, they see it and they go do it, and I'm proud of that. And then I heard a side thing about how people actually don't like that, the veterans don't like that. So, I started backing off from encouraging the kids to go thank them. So I was so thankful a few weeks ago I heard somebody, an older vet say no, like, thank you so much. Because, yeah, that doesn't, cause I guess the argument is this doesn't do much. But he's like, at least we're not forgotten. And then on Flag Day, it was recently, and we were at Costco. There were a lot of vets there. My kids went up to thank them, and one of them was really sweet. He just looked down and goes, thank you for thanking me. And it was just very simple, and I was like, OK, this is, we're gonna keep doing it and hopefully, you know, it's the right thing to do. I'm not sure. But that's the least we can do for people who have sacrificed for us to sit here right now. Indeed, and I think perhaps that maybe some people do appreciate the recognition and that someone does recognize that value and is thanking them. And perhaps the other side where there is a negative response is that they do not want to be reminded of the horrors of war and because they are being reminded that they are a veteran and had to partake in those things that, that uh brings up some negative memories. When they are being thanked nonetheless with good intentions. Right. So maybe just for my Comfort level. I can assume that we can think of that if he's wearing the hat. Because they wouldn't have, if they're really bothered by their memories of war, they probably wouldn't be wearing the hat out at Costco, right? I don't know. I'm not personally one. I do know that some of my relatives would still wear those things in public, not necessarily to desire recognition nor to even desire being interacted with, but so that they would be seen by other veterans and they would have that kinship and brotherhood. So switching gears here a bit, one of the other things that was in my mind for this particular episode since we are talking about the Declaration of Independence and whether that is occurring peacefully or not peacefully is just part of those things that have been conflicts in the past. And one of the things that was used in example in some teachings that we listened to recently was the phrase 9/11. So when you hear the phrase 9/11, what comes to your mind? I instantly think about um that date, September 11th and uh attacks on the Twin Towers. Indeed, and the actual example that this was used for was in terms of context and that if somebody said the word or phrase 9/11, that that would call in. That particular audience's remembrance, that exact event and that exact scenario, and that if you use this phrase later in history, that it may not have the exact context that it does for the modern audience. And I thought it was interesting to note because our young children, which are not all that young that uh that they did not know this phrase and did not really have a very firm grasp on that particular scenario that did occur in history and therefore that particular phrase was lost on them. Hm. So, do you think it's already losing its um reference point, or is it just that our kids haven't learned that in their history books yet? I think a bit of both. I think that it is beginning to lose some of its reference points, right? If we, uh, I mean, there's people that are voting that weren't even alive when that event occurred, right? So the other thing that we talked a little bit about is some of the atrocities that the United States has potentially. Uh, done as part of the response to even 9/11. So, do you know how many people died in the 9/11 attacks, American citizens. That day, that day. Um, I am, no, I would guess like. 100,000 2,996. Oh, I was off a little bit, just a little bit. And that is true. That is a good point that you made. I'm not counting necessarily anyone that had long term issues for from their health or, you know, cancer or shortened life spans because of what they dealt with in terms of Dealing with the smoke and wreckage and other hazardous substances, but just deaths on that day, 2,996. Wow. To put that in perspective, do you know how many people were killed in the first phase of the invasion of Iraq, commonly known as shock and awe. Um, are we talking American or are we talking? Iraqi citizens. So this is Iraqi citizens, those that are non-combatants. I think this number is going to make me sad. I'm gonna guess for if we were 200,000, right, you said? I'm gonna say 400,000. So the 9/11 number is only 2,296. OK. So the, yeah, the shock and a bombing campaign during the 2003 Iraq invasion killed around 6,616 civilians, about twice as many. So not putting necessarily anyone's life more in value than the other, but we are saying that in terms of just civilians that were killed, uh, that. The number is probably far less than what you would perhaps originally estimate and that there were over twice as many civilians killed in Iraq from our response to it. Wow, that's sad, and like you said, I, we have to fully say that. Each one of those lives is heartbreaking and sad, and those families are forever altered. But it is sad, I guess. Those citizens over there were also just as innocent bystanders. Man, you know, most of them were just as innocent as our citizens were that day. And then when we consider those that are serving in wartime roles, there were actually over 7000 US service members that died in the war zones of Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and elsewhere. In terms of this response to the 9/11 attacks. So just some things for consideration in terms of The loss of life and the response to that loss of life that caused even greater loss of life. And when we go further back and again put it in perspective of the War for independence that we are talking about on this July 4th that anywhere from between 25,000 and 70,000 Americans died during military service. Now the interesting thing to note is that only about 6800 or very close to that 7000 number that we were just talking about in terms of the Iraqi theater were actually killed in battle and then another 17,000 died from disease. And then the remainder, which could be anywhere from another 2000 upwards of 45,000 just because the numbers are very imprecise when making these estimates for things that happened so far in the past. They actually died as prisoners of war on prison ships. Oh, wow. Which that does not even come close to the bloodiest war that the United States was involved with. And can you guess who the United States was fighting in this war? I'm gonna say it ties back to the beginning, so Burton. Nope, take, take one more guess. Uh, ourselves, -- the civil -- war, the Civil War, that is it. So that is the North and South fighting in that civil war. It is estimated that there were over 360,000 deaths on the Union side and over 258,000 deaths on the Confederate side, bringing that total. To well over 600,000 people that died during the Civil War. Wow. Now again, that is an all in total that does count both the deaths that occurred during actual battles as well as those that died of disease. So that number is again. Highly correlated to fewer actually dying in battle, but many more dying later because of disease or the treatment they received within prisons. So a bit of a darker episode for this July 4th celebration. Happy July 4th, enjoy your watermelon. So we are celebrating our independence and that independence is very valuable, but it does come with great cost and it is for these things that we should remember and not only call into remembrance for our own benefit, but also potentially to thank those that have served and been involved in protecting our freedom. Right, yeah, and continue to. Absolutely. There's um I was overseas one time on the 4th of July, and um we were instructed, where I was not to make a big deal about it, because this country uh would not value. That, uh, at least their political. Leaders would not. So we were playing it real low key, and somebody, a citizen from that country comes over and he goes, isn't today America celebration happy day? And it was just really sweet to be like, yeah, it was, you know, we just kind of smiled and moved on. But um I like what you're saying about just the reality of It's more than the fireworks. It's more than having a day off in the middle of the week. And enjoying some watermelon and swimming in the pool. But there are, um, there have been. Actual consequences and families forever altered by this, and they'll continue to be, so that we have our freedom. Absolutely. And those things do impact our life all the way back from those actions that were taken in 1776, and those in the Civil War in the 1860s, and even those actions that have been taken as recently as The 9/11 events and the response that was made by the United States in the early 2000s and perhaps gives us a bit of perspective on some of the conflicts that are continuing to rage on between Russia and Ukraine and Israel and Gaza and potentially other countries as they are drawn into these particular conflicts. So with that, Here In our little community, we have a turgy. So we can strive to have altery because that is describing self-sufficiency and perhaps that will be something that we can dive more into detail in a future episode in terms of self-sufficiency and preparations that you make for the future because it is a bit different than the independence and freedom that we have within these United States, where that would be describing more of autonomy. And being having the ability to make our own decisions and do things the way that we want to. OK, excellent. And one final thought that we have not even gotten to in terms of the 9/11 discourse is building 7. I like the way you're looking at me. No one else can see it, but you knew I don't, you know, I don't know what that is, huh? Many people do not. Yeah, I'm one of them. Well, we'll save that for another episode, but just know that Building 7 fell in New York City, but was it hit by a jetliner? OK, I do know, cause you've mentioned this before, but we can talk about it later, in case anyone else doesn't know your ideas. They're not only my ideas, they are the ideas of many others that share these ideas. So as you are enjoying your Fourth of July celebrations this day and this evening, or perhaps if you're listening to this later, still nonetheless, may be some things that are prompting discussions for those that you are socializing with over this day or this holiday week. And remember from your friends that I hate talking. That it is only through talking that we begin the journey to understanding.