Icy Conditions Ahead

 Word of the Episode: Mawkish

• The hosts introduce the word mawkish, which neither of them initially knows. They discuss its pronunciation and origins, noting confusion with similar-sounding words like "mockish" or "moccasins."
• Looking up the word in historical dictionaries, they find that "mawkish" means:
  • Having a faint, sickly, or unpleasantly sweet taste (insipid).
  • Being weakly sentimental or feebly emotional, often used to describe something exaggeratedly or childishly emotional (e.g., a "mawkish love story").
  • The word’s roots are linked to the Greek for "masticate" (to chew), and the noun "mawk" refers to a maggot or worm.
• The hosts note that "mawkish" is now rare and mostly archaic, with usage peaking in the 1800s and declining in modern English. They consider reviving its use and give the example: “the film lapsed into mawkish sentimentality near the end.”

Discussion on Pronunciation and Similar Words

• The hosts discuss how some English words retain a long "E" sound at the end due to Greek and Latin roots (e.g., epitome, apostrophe, catastrophe, hyperbole, simile), which can be confusing for English speakers.

Then, in this episode, the hosts continue their story about navigating an unexpected winter storm while driving home with their family. They reflect on how staying calm in a crisis can make a significant difference in outcomes and safety.

Key Points:

• Crisis Situation:
  The family encountered icy roads and dangerous driving conditions after a winter event. Many drivers around them were inexperienced with ice, leading to hazardous situations.
• Decision-Making Under Pressure:
  The hosts describe how, despite initial anxiety, they focused on making rational, step-by-step decisions-such as switching drivers to the one with more winter driving experience and choosing the safest route home. They emphasize the importance of not letting panic take over, as panic can cloud judgment and lead to mistakes.
• Staying Calm:
  The episode explores how calmness is not just a personality trait but a skill that can be developed through practice, preparation, and experience. The hosts share personal strategies for staying calm, including deep breathing, focusing on immediate next steps, and maintaining perspective.
• Teaching Calmness:
  They discuss how modeling calm behavior helps children and others around them remain composed in stressful situations. The hosts note that calmness can be contagious, just as panic can spread quickly in a group.
• Broader Reflection:
  The conversation expands to other scenarios where staying calm is crucial-medical emergencies, parenting challenges, and unexpected life events. They encourage listeners to practice calmness and to prepare for emergencies so that, when real crises arise, they can respond thoughtfully and safely.

Conclusion:
The episode uses a real-life winter driving scare as a springboard to discuss the value of calmness in crisis. The hosts offer practical advice and personal insights, highlighting that calm, rational action can turn a potentially dangerous situation into a manageable one-and that this skill is vital for both personal safety and leadership.

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Any views expressed on this podcast are those solely of the hosts and is for entertainment purposes only. None of the content is medical advice or financial advice.

Special thanks to Tim Wright aka CoLD SToRAGE for his permission to use the song Operatique.

Transcript

I Hate Talking: 0:29

Welcome to episode 40 of I Hate Talking. Whoa, hey, hi everyone. So we did get some listener requests about words ending in a long E sound like epitome from our Greek and Latin that perhaps we could talk about, but maybe you have something in mind before that or after that. Yeah, OK. Yeah, I have a word for today, but we'll definitely go to that soon. The word I have is mawkish. Have you ever heard that word and do you know what mawkish means? -- Mawish as spelled M O C K I S -- H M A W K I S H. So we're getting into the difference between very minute pronunciations cause I think you certainly said Mawish with an O. Ma. Mackish. Do you want to hear how AI says it? No, -- I don't really care for AI -- can yell and scream whether I said it the same as AI or not. No, AI probably didn't even do it right anyway. Or it could be operator error for the fact that you don't have your volume turned up. Yeah. Where it's connected to your Bluetooth. My volume is down so that I don't get interrupted with dings while we're doing this. I'm doing well, -- I'm -- sure our listeners appreciate that. Yes, they probably have enough dings in their life anyway. Maw mawkish, yeah, see it's got the little ah ah mawkish instead of Mack. I think you're just wasting time so you can figure out what mawkish means. Now, I do not know what mawkish means. If I was to define the word mockish, then it would be maybe somebody that's doing something in a mocking manner, sort of like a funny poking way and adding the ISH as sort of that indicator that they're doing it in such a fashion, mockish, but for mawkish, I have no idea. I almost. It, it brings to mind moccasins, but that's a different, different word altogether as well. Maybe Mohawk, and I think that's where I'm getting some of the different spellings mixed up. So lots of different word. Things that are connected in my mind there that have probably no relevance to the definition of the word mawkish at all. Well, have we ever talked about in the past 40 episodes, have we talked about how I can't hear the difference in what you're saying right now? No, I don't believe we have discussed that. Sorry, go ahead. That's the answer. No. Maybe one day we can talk about that cause it's probably no surprise to people listening that I don't pronounce many words correctly. And it's not for lack of trying, I cannot physically hear the difference in those sounds. So, you're saying mawkish and Mawish sound identical to me. But if I give you the tip that it's German, I bet that throws you off a little bit. Does, I would not have guessed that this would have German roots per se. Does not really help me with even coming to a definition. Do you want to look it up in our big old dictionary? We can check. I don't know if it's going to be in there. So which one do you want to start with our 1828 or the more recent, uh, 1900s 1. Start with the big one that weighs 10 pounds. OK, we'll start with the more recent one then. Now, I think it may actually be in this one. So, for our listeners, this is our complete and unabridged, the Little and Ives, Webster Dictionary and Home Reference library. It's from 1867 and then also was updated in 1957, 1958. Uh, so we will check the word mockish. So it is in here, Mawish. It also has the adjective. Makashli So the definition of the word mawkish per this dictionary is. Maggot Goth means a worm, chew, gnaw, also can refer to mandible, it can refer to chewing, biting. In a physical sense, having a faint, sweet, sickly taste, insipid. Or it can be of non-material things, weakly, sentimental, or feebly emotional. Yeah, that's basically what I got. I hadn't gotten, I haven't looked in this big dictionary yet. So, in my research, I got sentimental, in a feeble or sickly way, also lacking in flavor or having an unpleasant taste. If you're using it, um, you can say, Exaggeratedly or childishly emotional, like a mawkish love story. Interesting. So it does come from the root word in I guess Greek for. Mastama, which does, I think, produce the word masticate, which means to chew. Right, if you masticate your food, you are chewing it up, so that's the same root word that becomes mawkish. Interesting. All right, let's see if it's in the 1828. I guess it actually might be because it actually is perhaps more of an archaic word. I did not expect it to be in there, but I think it actually might be after reading this definition in our little and Ives dictionary. OK. So for our final reference, I guess we'll look at for this particular word mawkish is the American Dictionary of the English Language by Noah Webster in 1828. And this is not an original printing, as you may have heard in. A very long ago episode, I guess it feels like at this point, this is just a facsimile. This is the book I can't read. The words or letters are so tiny, but watching you look right now, I would have to get very close to it to actually see what it says. So it does appear in here. Mawkish Apt to cause sy or loathing so sweetly mawish. And so smoothly doll is the example sentence. That gives me more questions than uh clarification. I feel like I have to look up those other words then too. Say and loathing. Right, like, I feel like I could put them in a sentence. But then when they're all in one sentence, then I don't know what the sentence means. Now, there is a noun, mock, which is a maggot or a slattern, which would be a worm. So, that would probably be more the noun aspect and then the mawkish is probably more of the sentimental value when it comes to City, and I don't know if it's actually loathing, it's actually loing, which is probably another archaic word that we're running into here that has to do with sentimentality. Yeah, that makes sense. So, I think, as we can see that perhaps I have not encountered this word in my everyday reading or. Consumption of various materials. So where -- did this word come from for our -- episode? Well, you told me that I needed to come up with a word today. And so I sat down and thought, what where do I want to learn? Came to a blank, wasn't sure. And so I just googled words people don't know, and that was the first one that came up. So, according to the great Google, most people do not know the word mawkish, and they were correct, because at least the two of us did not know it. Indeed, and it's still used in like modern context though? Or is it, it, it really seems like a lot of the definitions that we ran into were very archaic in nature, which I'm fine with. I like using archaic words, but like if they've fallen completely out of use and like nobody knows. And nobody uses them anymore, then I maybe don't feel as strongly about them. OK, that's fair enough. I don't know how regular it is. I can't tell you off the top of my head how many times I've heard it. So you can search for word usage over time and usually Google will give you a little chart that gives the usage over time for a particular word if you just ask for the definition or etymology. That actually does not appear when you do such a search for Mackish. So we can turn to the Ngram viewer and Mawish is Barely a blip on the graph when you can compare it to words that are similar in definition, sentimental, silly, or maggot, uh, using the noun. Uh, it does have an uptick in the 1800s. So if we look at just mawkish by itself on the Ngram viewer, does show up in the Early 1800s through 1850, and then. Heaters off pretty quickly after that and is not used in the modern lexicon. Now, it is interesting to note that you can find mawkish in the modern day Oxford Language dictionary with regards to the sentimentality and sort of like a silly or overbearing way, but for all intents and purposes, does not seem that mawkish is used in the modern day lexicon. But I feel like we should bring it back. Well, our listeners can let us know if they are enjoying that word or not. Personally, not finding much use for it. OK, well, no wonder Google said it was one of the top words that we don't know. Because it was literally not used anymore. Yeah. -- That's why we need to use it so people do know -- it. That explains it. Well, do you have an actual usage for it, where you could actually use it in everyday life? Well, the example that I have from one of the more modern meanings, it says, the quote is, the film lapsed in mawkish sentimentality near the end. And a synonym would be drippy, informal, or disapproving. So if you're going with the thought of like the maggots and the unpleasant taste, insipid. Yeah, and to bundle it up into one word, insipid. Mawish mawkish. I think also people are going to hear Mackish and not mawkish. Oh my goodness, I don't know the, I can't hear the difference. And they're gonna think that you're just mocking them. Well, that's what makes sense because it's about being silly and informal and disapproving and dippy. Like that's mawkish, childish, yeah, makes sense to me. But you're saying they don't sound the same to you, nor should they. Like, I'm mocking you, and this is mockish. Correct. OK. Well, it makes the same sounds in my head. It makes sense to me. Now one sound that we can be sure of is the long E sound at the end of epitome. So there are a number of words with the long E sound at the end that come from that Greek and Latin root that does retain the long E sound. So if you were wondering about that, there are a lot of different words, perhaps some of them more archaic, but ones that you may use in everyday usage is apostrophe. Catastrophe Hyperbole And simile, and those are all ones that if you use sort of the normal everyday pronunciation rules of English, that you may not pronounce that long E sound, but those long E sounds are retained because of the Greek and Latin roots having that same effect as epitome. Yeah, that's super interesting, cause I do know all of those words. And when I read them, I know what the word is, but if you're phonically spelling them, sounding them out, That's definitely not what the conclusion you'd come to in modern day English. Precisely. And those words are definitely not archaic, and I think used in everyday language. So, maybe I feel a bit mockish about them. Well, I was thinking. That an incident we had recently that was not mockish. But now looking back, I feel like as time goes on, it's gonna be more mockish or silly. Is a weather story we had recently. Where we were. Essentially trapped in her car and Long story short, we'll go into the details. I want to hear your story about it, but essentially we had to ditch our car with our kids hike to our home in the snow and the ice. Well, I think maybe you are employing hyperbole there, that it was not quite as intense as you make it sound, but it was quite the adventure nonetheless. And yes, this particular weather event affected much of the lower 48 and I think was somewhat unexpected for our particular area. We actually thought there would be more of a concern in the morning hours on this particular day, but the morning commute and everything seemed quite normal. So we went about our business as normal and went to a number of evening activities and then on the way home from these evening activities, encountered quite a bit of unexpected icy roads. Yeah, um, we did our research and others did too, like you said, we thought it was the day before and the morning of. And even the weather people that we really rely on, they seem to know what they're doing, um, there's certain people we follow follow on X. They were like, yeah, we're good, no problem. So we went about our day. Little did we know that at 8 o'clock at night we'd get in our car and start slipping and sliding home. Precisely, and it was, I think one of the more harrowing driving expeditions that I have done in sort of this winter weather. Because growing up in the Northeast, we would. Always encounter some sort of snowstorm or ice storm or whatever the case may be, but there is often a, a decent amount of preparedness about that with treating the roads or at least having drivers in the area that knew how to drive in such conditions that you didn't really have to worry necessarily about other people and what they were going to do. They were also aware of the conditions and sort of knew how to drive within those conditions. Versus our area that we're in at this point in time where there's maybe different people from different areas or because this winter weather is encountered somewhat infrequently, they don't experience this on a regular basis and therefore do not know how to drive in it. We did see a number of cars that had their four-way blinkers on and that sort of indicated that there was perhaps some sort of issue, and that is when we encountered the ice not soon after leaving said event in the evening. Yeah. So, and to go back to what you were saying about the people not knowing what to do. One, I think it is our area, it's not super common. Also, that night, the weather was so weird because certain areas were fine. And then you'd get into an area that was really slit, and you're slipping and sliding, and then you're fine. So, depending on when you got on the road, We saw people tailgating. And it was so frustrating cause I understand that they, I feel like they probably did not realize how slippy parts were. So they get behind someone going slow, and they were frustrated by that. But it was scary watching people tailgate. I'm like, yo, we're gonna, you're gonna crash quickly. So that was the added issue. For us, when we left our event. The sidewalk was slippy. Some of our kids slipped and I was like, oh wow, just be careful, walk carefully to the car. I thought that was odd, but that was it. I was getting in, I was driving, getting drive. And you were like, yeah, I'll drive, go ahead. So I'm so thankful you said that cause I have so much more faith in your experience. First, I have a lot of faith in your judgment, and then I also have a lot of faith in your previous experience in winter driving. I'm so glad I did not have our entire family in that car with me as I was driving. Indeed, and the areas that you said that were slick, I think were in some ways depending on how much precipitation and how much wind had been at that particular location. So a lot of the areas that were more open and were getting more wind and rain and perhaps freezing rain were definitely more slick, whereas other areas that were maybe perhaps protected from the wind did not seem quite as bad, but There certainly were areas that were worse than others. Yeah, so that's what I want to talk about actually is twofold, I guess. One is what to do kind of in these situations, and then also, how do you make decisions when it, something comes up and you don't expect it. And it can literally be life or death. Like, how can we stay calm? How can we um properly think about these things? Cause That's kind of what we ended up having. I know it sounds ridiculous, like, like you said, hyperbole, I don't want to be hyperbolic, but like, the question being, there were decisions we had to make, and later we can talk a little about the story of, we had to ditch our car and leave. Which ended up being one of the scariest moments of possibly my life, or poss definitely that night when we did that. But how do we Make decisions calmly. When you only have a second to choose these choices, and yet your life or others' lives do depend on it. Well, a number of things that come to mind. One, we were in some situations that required split-second decision making, but in some of these, Instances that we will perhaps get into as we describe our story, they were not split second. Decisions that had to be made. We had minutes to decide what we were going to do. -- So -- we didn't have preparation, but you had a couple of minutes. It was not immediate choices. Correct. So perhaps that is one strategy that one could use is making sure that you frame the decision in actually the time and impact that it actually necessitates that these were not split second decisions. These had Many seconds or even many minutes to come to the conclusion and try to make the right decision. So that's number one. Number 2 is something you mentioned to some degree is the preparedness. If you are trained and have experience in how to do things within certain scenarios such as winter weather driving, then you can trust in that experience and again, maybe not even have to make a decision, but actually rely on that training and experience. And then also related to that is the preparedness and making sure that you have what you need when you need it. In order to make good decisions as well as have positive outcomes. Nice. So, yeah, when we got on the road, everything was fine, normal night home. And then, like you said, you saw the blinking lights. Did you know what was happening? When I saw it, I thought, oh, there must be an accident ahead. And I also, I did notice like both lanes of traffic were blinking, and I thought that's strange, like, why don't they just get over to one side and let the rest of us go through. So that was, I thought we were coming up on an accident. What was your impression? So I thought there at the start of when I was seeing this that perhaps there was one driver that was being overly cautious and not knowing what to do and therefore was causing a lot of other people to take Extra precautions as well. I'm not actually entirely certain that's untrue because I do think that we did encounter a number of drivers that were doing things that actually put themselves perhaps more in harm's way or in, or others in harm's way because of how they were behaving. But nonetheless, there definitely was ice and slick conditions in that area. And that was actually one of the things that I did do, maybe you did not even notice this, but Before I was even getting closer to the other traffic, I basically. Was putting the vehicle into a. Controlled anti-lock braking system scenario. You just press the brakes until the anti-lock brakes kick on if it's actually slick. Yeah, see, I don't get my car because there's like a, what that's the ASB or something like that like sometimes that comes on and it's wonky. That's one of the modern day technological features and vehicles that I actually appreciate. -- Am -- I like unintentionally turning it on and I just think it's wonky. Probably most people do actually think that something is failing when they engage the anti-lock braking system because the brakes are basically not breaking in order that you maintain traction control. So I did engage the anti-lock braking system to determine if it was actually slippery and indeed it was. So I think that in some ways these cars that had their four ways on. were legitimately signaling that there was danger and like you said, there were some other vehicles that gave no acknowledgement to that and were just driving on as if nothing was happening. OK. Well, yeah, so I did not notice that. I was tending to the kids and stuff. So I just thought, like I said, there was an accident up ahead. I was trusting that you're watching it. And I was tending to them, and then all of a sudden in my memory, the car just starts like swerving, like, not drastically. But like, it was obvious, so we were slick and the tires had no traction. And that was what my memory is. But you were prepared, you knew that that was gonna happen. Indeed, I actually did that on purpose to determine the road conditions. So then we continued driving, we did encounter some other areas again, if I was coming upon some either slow or stopped vehicles or perhaps coming up to a stop sign or traffic light, I would again do this test and Basically press the brakes until they began to either slow the vehicle and actually encounter traction. So that indicated to me that the road conditions were dry or not slick, or there were instances where when doing that sort of test that the antilock brake system did kick in and indicated to me that I would need to take some extra stopping distance in order to come to a full stop. Or slow appropriately when you're approaching this traffic or traffic intersection. OK, first, disclaimer, we are not automobile. Experts do not take anything we say. As legal or through or medical or anything. This is not one of those kind of podcasts. Don't cite us in your lawsuit. But my question for you then is do all cars have that? Can you, from a really old car to the newest, will you know if you're tapping on the brakes like that? -- Can you -- tell me? Press firmly and with constant pressure. a constant like getting more pressure, -- not like a sudden -- you wouldn't want to, no, you don't slam on your brakes. This would be your, -- you're -- going farther down constant, OK. And I think In this day and age, that maybe if you have like a super old vehicle that maybe even is classified as like a classic vehicle, it would not have ABS but If it's been made in. Our lifetime, I think it has an electric system. So it's pretty safe to say that all modern vehicles would have that equipped. OK. So, after that point, we got to a point, because we were one of the first to leave, we realized, oh, this is not safe. So we called our friends and we're like, hey, spread the word, this road that they all have to take pretty much. is slippy, just use caution. So we spread that word around, not trying to panic people, but also that they know what to expect because at least from my perspective, I was totally taken a shot, which in hindsight, obviously, is 2020. I should have known better. So when I got into the driver's seat, I had no problem opening my car door when you were like, I better drive. And I switched seats, I noticed that my side was so icy and it was hard to open my car door. And I thought that was weird and just moved on. Now I look back I'm like, well, no wonder wherever the wind was hitting, it iced over so quickly. And I think that's why some parts were so icy and some were not, was based on buildings and the wind flow, right? Precisely, and that is exactly why I opted to drive because I could tell from the precipitation and the wind and the temperature that this was potentially going to result in hazardous road conditions. And then we did go through that initial icy area and went through many different icy areas. And then did specifically avoid the freeway. That's what I was gonna say. So the highway. Which shows that you, we've lived in our location for many, many years, and that's a dead giveaway that you're not a natural here. It's what you just called it, which I love cause I get keys for my cultural background. But it's actually a highway, not a freeway, precisely. That's fine. So, the highway, talk me through this. OK, so first, quick, quick, quick background. For this event, it's a weekly event we go to as a family. I'd say probably 50%, maybe more. 65% of the time I drive separate with the kids and you drive because you either come straight from work, or You are a leader in this group, so you either have to go early for meetings or stay later. So depending on what the schedule is, is whether we go together or not. So it was actually odd that you were home and we drove together. That was not in the plan, that wasn't originally what we were gonna do. So, coincidentally or preordained or however you want to say it, we had one car. Cause we would have had 2 was the original plan. So I'm just saying that cause my plan was, I would have been driving traditionally, I would driven the kids and you would have driven separate. Because in my head, I thought we should get on the highway because this was my thought process, was because it is well kept up versus the back roads that we know that you like to take. And it's driven a lot, so the road is warm, cause these back roads aren't driven often. So I thought that they'd freeze quickly. And be more AC. And it's just a direct route home. So I was like, we should get on the highway, and that's probably what I would have done, was get on the highway, it's a direct route. It's in my head, I thought I would be less AC. And if you had done that, it would have ended up in the traffic or actually in the eight-car pileup that occurred, as well as highway shut down. The fact that some of those back roads that you would have to take from the highway to the house were actually avoided because we went through different back roads. So there's a number of different reasons that you would be best served by perhaps avoiding the highway. One is because of just the sheer amount of traffic and the fact that that highway particularly has a lot of bridges and overpasses which will freeze more quickly than a regular road surface so that would be. Some reasons to avoid that. And then perhaps it's true in perhaps snowy conditions that you would want to go in the more well traveled roads because like you said, there are gonna be more vehicles and it's going to be More well packed or more well traveled and therefore give you a little bit more of control. But in these icy conditions, it doesn't necessarily really matter and because of the amount of traffic and the speed that you'd actually want to avoid those icy conditions and just stick with the back roads. The back roads also will give you a little bit perhaps more control. So like if you do come to a particular instance where there is traffic or an accident, that you have the opportunity to go on a different route rather than being just stuck on the highway and you're sort of committed to that particular route. Right. Yeah, for, I mean, for our specific situation where I would have gotten on. We drove by it and you were like, see, that's why we're not on it. And I was glad you made that choice. But had we gotten on, yeah, it's 4 miles. You're stuck. There's no, for our specific, some, I know lots of areas have much closer together on and off ramps, but in our area right there, that's uh at least 4 + mile commitment. And it was a dead stop for hours. -- So we did not go that -- way. No, thank God, thank you. -- And -- we went on literally the back roads, which were not without their excitement either. No. So we arrived at our final road and we're attempting to get from this road onto our side road onto our driveway to our house. -- So -- we were almost home, like literally. Maybe not literally, but almost, almost literally. You could see our, we still have our Christmas lights up. You could see our house with the lights, like we were that close. So we got to our road where we were preparing to make our turn onto our road and that does consist of a hill and a curve, and we were able to visibly see one car off to the side into the ditch and a mail truck. Into the ditch on the other side. And then a vehicle that was stopped sort of directly in the middle of the road, sort of, I guess on our lane, but. Halfway up the hill and that was sort of what we encountered as we came to our what was supposed to be our final turn. Right, so we paused for a long while waiting to see what other people were doing. There were 2 cars in front of us. Eventually they both U-turned in front of us and left. But our house literally was right there. You just had to go finish going up the hill, turn. And then go down our street, like we were so close. So I didn't want a U-turn. There, there's only one other way to get to our home, and it's across the hill. You'd have to circle the entire mountain, but it's a small one. And that's worse because the other side has severe drop-offs that if you do make a wrong turn, like you're falling, and that's terrifying. And I did consider that because although there are some steep drop offs, the road itself is actually relatively straight. So this, yeah, our road is up and down, very hilly, so. You decide to try to bypass the car in the middle to get up a hill like you're like, I maybe I'll just gun it and we will go. No, I was not going to gun it. You you know if we weren't in the car. I, OK, honestly, no one else was listening, just me. Just right now tell me that wasn't in your head at all. If the car had not been there in the way and making poor decisions to like sit directly in the path of traffic, listen first, OK, yes, then yes, I would have proceeded slowly and got a running start at the hill and attempted to make it. OK, exactly. So yeah, you would have. I knew it. I was so scared. OK, first, yes, this person did not do the right thing. So maybe we should talk about that because maybe people don't know what to do. She was terrified. She was literally terrified. She was parked and just frozen in that spot, and that's what I want to talk about. It's like that, was it the fight, flight, fight, flee, freeze, or fawn, right? What's it called? Not familiar with that. What is it? You know what I'm talking about. Flight or fight. Fight You're talking about run hide fight? No, like, -- it's -- all. -- Are you talking about active shooter -- training? Any in any emergency situation. She was in an emergency situation. Flight or fight? Freeze. And then I guess some probably therapist added there's 4. OK, we'll just keep adding them until it covers all the scenarios. OK, that's a whole another time we can talk about that because I fully believe in it. But yes, so I think she was in the freeze where like. She saw, she probably, I don't know, I wasn't there. She was there earlier. -- She probably saw one or two of the cars or -- she definitely be there today. She saw the two cars on the side of the curb in front of her. And she did not know what to do. She was not in a safe spot, and she was actually making everyone else more unsafe. But what else was she gonna do? Because when you tried to pass her, We started slipping so bad and you had to reverse back to our original spot to U-turn. That is true. I did not have the angle. That's untrue. Well, from her angle, but she could have just backed up. She would have had to know she could back up. I think that the car she was driving was overpowered for what she was capable of. It's a really nice car. She had a very nice car. She did. So it definitely could have handled what she needed to do for this particular scenario. OK, also super side note, when we lived in Pennsylvania. Um, many, many, many years ago we lived on the hill also. And one time we kept watching this lady try to go up the hill and she'd slide back down continuously. A truck driver ended up getting out and making her get out, and he drove her car up. Remember? I do. I do remember that. -- So -- yes, on the first attempt. You could have probably taken her car and driven it up maybe and been OK. But we did not do that. Instead, you U-turned it. I did you turn it, -- so we did make that -- you turned our car, I guess I should clarify you left her. -- We left -- her there. Good luck. We did try our feeble attempt at bypassing her and trying to do it, but with the, the angles and the hills, it was definitely not going to be possible because if you turned at all, you would hit the mail truck because he was in the ditch. So it was either hit her, the mail truck, or the truck in front of her. Like there was no path. It would have to be a perfect straight shot. Yeah, and there's other vehicles at the top of the hill that were also, I think, stuck because this particular vehicle was. Frozen, as you said, uh, but nonetheless, we did U-turn and. Went and talked to a number of other vehicles that were at the time behind us that we were now within speaking distance of and, you know, basically just related the situation to them and uh let them make their own decision. But we parked at a neighbor's house, so we again hyperbole ditched the vehicle but we parked in a parking space in a driveway. Of a neighbor's house. -- He -- was out watching the show. He was watching what was happening. So I talked to him, made sure that we were able to leave the vehicle there and then we proceeded to. As you said, quote unquote hike the, uh, the short distance from the neighbor's house to our own house. Oh man, was it a half mile, maybe a mile? -- It was more than -- up to a half mile was 0.3 miles. -- You -- think I looked it up. You looked it up. But like, do hills count because we had two hills we had to climb. We did have to climb our own hill and then there was also the hill that -- we were actually trying to traverse up during the -- icy hills we had to hike. Yes, that is true. So, yes, OK. Also, praise to us, like, if I can pat ourselves on the back for a quick second, because Everyone, OK, maybe that's just my parenting, but everybody had their shoes and socks, everyone had a winter coat, and everybody also had a flashlight or headlamp. There's sometimes we get in the car and we may not have all of those items with us. Yes, that's ridiculous. I find that frustrating even thinking about the fact that there's even the remote possibility of not having shoes or a coat. Flashlights, like a lot of people don't have flashlights. I would, I would say flashlights would be at least one per vehicle would be acceptable. The fact that we did have all our own, that was nice. And there's some people I did actually read on some social medias later, the, you know, the next day that people were quote unquote dying of thirst because they were stuck in this eight car pileup and they didn't have any water with them. Well, I thought of that afterwards because we do have water in our trunk as well. And I was like, we should have grabbed waters and passed them to the cars as we were walking past them. We should have offered water because we could have, but we didn't. Cause we also, I thought about like, should we get a backpack, like, I mean, you actually had a backpack that had stuff. You had a go bag. In my head I was like, should I grab more stuff? And I was like, our house, literally, you can see it. We'll get there. -- We're -- fine. That was also frustrating the fact that we could not just exit the vehicle and be ready to walk, that you had to find your phone, that it was like not in your pocket and like your keys weren't ready. -- So I -- didn't, I didn't know. I stepped out of the vehicle, closed the door, and was ready to go. OK, OK, OK, OK, -- a -- child that needs to get their stuff gonna like stop making you stop talking, so. Every other mom in the world, let's listen to this, understands that she has to like be like, child 4, do you have your socks and shoes on? Here's your winter coat. Grab your light. And I remember having to tell you like, I need you to help me zip these coats up because my hands, it was so cold. It was In the double digits, which for us is extremely cold. It was, I was falling from the sky. It wasn't snow at that point. It was ice. It was so cold and windy, and my hands are shaking as I'm trying to zip up their coats. I'm like, you need to help me because you were like, I'm ready, let's go, which I'm thankful that you got us there. You got us safely. I'm not dissing that at all. But then you were like frustrated that like, I'm like, kids, get your shoes on, kids get your coats on, get your hats on. And I was like, I need your help. And then, yes, I understand, we all started walking and then I realized that my phone was still in the car. Like, I have to go back and get my phone. But I put it down on the middle console. To grab the coats and. So, yes, that's my error, but also, I feel like I had a lot of other things I was tending to that I could have had help with. Indeed, I did help. I helped put on the jackets and got the jackets out of the trunk. You got us there safe, like 100%. I know that had we been driving separately, I would have been. It is one of the reasons that I make all the kids when they ride with me or I'm the driver, they have socks and shoes on when they are in the vehicle, no matter what. Right. I think, yeah, I, OK, personal note, I hate socks and shoes. If you know me personally, you know this. I hate wearing them. So I'm sure that trickles down on my children. I don't force them to wear them. Until absolutely necessary. But there would have been times in the past, like other. Times That we would have ended up there without a coat or two or without a pair of shoes or two. So we all had them. We had all our gear. We were ready for her, which when you say half mile, less than half mile hike, that sounds embarrassing. But it was legit. We were the road actually was very icy. I was, I was surprised. And we did, we did go down a hill, up a hill, then we got to the road. The road was like a sheet of ice, so I was actually quite surprised that it was as bad as it was as it was just walking on it. So then we had to move to the shoulder and then proceed -- along our -- once we got on the grass, we got started walking on grass. It was hard, but it wasn't like you're slipping and sliding. It was really fun. That part was actually cool because there were people parked, right? Cause they didn't know what to do. They were stuck. There were also houses around, the people were out watching. Cause this is so rare for our area that people are watching what's happening. And it was actually cool. Like people were cheering us on and praising that like, we had a whole crowd of, um, it was like a parade. It was really fun and one of our kids ate it up, had the best time waving at people and um Some of them were having fun skidding up and down the hill, and I, in hindsight, I wish I would have led them. I wish I'd been the fun mom that would let them just run up and down the hill. But I was in such survival mode. I was like, walk like a penguin, go quickly, safely, slowly. Now I'm like, oh, I should have let them enjoy the ice skating they were trying to do. No, I think we still made the right decision to just get. Back to where we needed to do. So, so yes, people were praising us from their vehicles and from the backyards of their houses. So if you've enjoyed this episode, you can praise this episode by leaving a review or a star rating and share it with uh other friends and family as you so desire. So from your friends that I hate Talking, until next time, remember, it is only through talking that we begin the journey to understanding.