Christmastide, When Will It End? And The Lost Ornaments

 In episode 41, recorded in January 2025, the hosts discuss the lingering presence of Christmas in their lives, prompted by one wearing a Christmas sweater well after the holiday. This leads to a deep dive into the word of the episode: Christmastide.

Key Points:

• Christmastide Defined:
  Christmastide refers to the traditional Christian season of Christmas, beginning at sunset on Christmas Eve (December 24) and ending at sunset on January 6 (Epiphany). This period encompasses the "12 Days of Christmas," a concept often misunderstood in popular culture as the days leading up to Christmas, when it actually starts on Christmas Day and continues afterward.
• Cultural and Personal Traditions:
  The hosts reflect on their own practices, noting that while all Christmas decorations are down by January, the emotional transition away from the holiday can be difficult. Extending the season through Christmastide helps ease post-holiday sadness for one host, who admits to feeling a "melancholy sadness" when festivities end abruptly.
• Debate Over Timing:
  A recurring family debate centers on when it is appropriate to begin Christmas celebrations. One host prefers to wait until after Thanksgiving, emphasizing the importance of keeping Thanksgiving distinct and undistracted by Christmas preparations. The other host enjoys starting Christmas music and festivities as early as May or June, finding joy in the anticipation.
• Compromise and Family Logistics:
  The family tradition is to begin decorating for Christmas right after Thanksgiving, never before, except for rare circumstances (such as pregnancy or travel). They discuss the challenges of balancing holiday traditions with practical realities, like a December birthday for one of their children, and how to keep that celebration distinct from Christmas.
• Cultural Norms and Flexibility:
  The hosts acknowledge that while cultural norms generally dictate Christmas follows Thanksgiving, practical considerations (like work schedules for first responders) sometimes require flexibility in holiday observance. Even so, they agree that, ideally, Christmas activities should begin only after Thanksgiving is celebrated.

Conclusion:
The episode uses the concept of Christmastide to explore both the historical and emotional rhythms of the holiday season, highlighting family traditions, debates about timing, and the ways people navigate the transition from one celebration to the next. The discussion underscores how holiday timing can be both a matter of tradition and personal well-being.

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Any views expressed on this podcast are those solely of the hosts and is for entertainment purposes only. None of the content is medical advice or financial advice.

Special thanks to Tim Wright aka CoLD SToRAGE for his permission to use the song Operatique.

Transcript

I Hate Talking: 0:29

Welcome to episode 41 of I Hate Talking. Hi everyone. Now, Christmas is over. It is at the time of this recording, January of 2025. Oh yeah, but you're still wearing a Christmas sweater. Yeah. First, this is my warmest sweater and we've had a lot of snow and coldness. I don't know, is that a bad thing to wear a sweater in January? Well, I think sweaters are more than appropriate, but. Like I said, Christmas is over. Oh, I know, but it's uh it's. I don't know. What is the word you're looking for. It's more like a state of mind than a date on the calendar. Hm, January is on the calendar now and Christmas is December 25th. Only 300. 50 days away. I suppose so. And there's the 12 Days of Christmas, which that's passed now as well. If you start on day one as Christmas Day and count 12, I guess we would have made it to January 6th or something like that. Is that the end of the Christmas season officially? I mean, in some cultures, I think, and beliefs, that's what we've done because I get, yeah, I guess we'll talk about that. Are we talking about right now? We are recording right now, so we are talking, even though we may hate talking. Yes, I'm really tired. Yeah, January 6th is in some cultures when they end of Christmas celebration, and it's been good for us. For me, because I like that little bit. It's like a winding down for us. Like, the 25th is obviously really big, maybe a couple days after that, and then it just stops and it makes my heart so sad. But that's like a winding down, but we do have all our Christmas decorations down. And I'm still wearing my Christmas clothes, but it's because it's warm. It's not because I think it's Christmas. I haven't listened to a Christmas song that I did a couple days, but It's cause this is my warmest sweater, that's why I have it on. Do you think people think, would think it's odd if I walked around wearing this right now? Like outside No, it's Probably wintery enough that it probably would not really draw many second glances or anything. It is, I would say, if you study the sweater definitively, Christmas, right, because it is red, it has Christmas trees on it. And I think if somebody really took the time to determine whether it was a quote unquote Christmas-themed sweater or not, they would come to the conclusion that it is Christmas themed. But it's not like so crazy, like ugly Christmas sweater type style that it would really draw all that much attention. Are you judging me though right now for wearing this? To be honest, I had not even really noticed until I sort of saw that and thought it would be funny to include in the episode. So that does bring us to our word or phrase of the episode, and that word or phrase is Christmas tide, which does describe those 12 days of Christmas. So Christmas tide is the liturgical, mostly in Anglican, Episcopalian, but in general, the Christian calendar, the season of Christmas, specifically from Christmas until into the new year. And I guess it's a maybe a little bit confusing and maybe we even have our dates a bit incorrect here, but Christmas tide actually starts at sunset on Christmas Eve, December 24th. And then proceeds to the 12th night, which is the night of January 5th, and then I guess we go into the 6th. So the 6th would sort of be the end of the Christmas tide period with Epiphany as the final day there. OK. So yeah, I think we're Right, ish. But so at noon on the 6th. is when Christmas tide ends. Yeah, I guess it depends exactly on when you count your start and end of the day, whether that is at sunset or sunrise or whatever the case may be, but I guess it would technically be sunset on the 6th would be the final end of the 12 day period. OK. Yeah, I think a lot of people in modern day culture When they hear the 12 Days of Christmas, they think of like the 12 days leading up to Christmas, right? Like, you get socks, so you do all that, but the actual song, the 2 days of Christmas song, and other things like that, right, actually starts, I guess, on the 24th, like you said. That is correct. So that is the word or phrase, Christmas tide that does describe those 12 days of Christmas that start actually on Christmas and like you said, maybe there's a cultural misunderstanding that Many think that that is the 12 days leading up to Christmas Day, but it is in fact the 12 days. Including Christmas Eve, post that period. So, what, OK, obviously Christmas, I get that part of the word, but the second half of the word tied. What would that mean? So I think that there's actually two root words in here, Christmas. I think that is all relatively understood that that is the celebration of Christmas season, and then tide simply means referring to a specific period of time or season. So it is basically Christmas time. OK. It's not Christmas time, it's Christmas tide. That is correct. OK. But it means the same. Tied from the reference to a specific period of time or season, yes. OK. So, however you measure it, whether you start your Christmas celebration. Right after Thanksgiving or even before, which I really don't think is acceptable, it is. Or if you celebrate this in the historical traditional way of celebrating Christmas and then the 12 days post Christmas Eve. Either way you measure it, Christmas is over for this year. So for me, I'm extreme, I understand, but somehow, and I can't Explain it. I, even my, I see people post on like my Facebook memories and stuff that this is referenced. So, there's something ingrained in me that come by May, definitely by June. I get super Fancy for Christmas. I start playing the music, and I just, like, need it to come, and I get so excited hyping it up. And I know you hate that. I try to not play the music or talk too much about it around you, cause I know you get frustrated. But I love it so much and it's such a joyful time. And also for people who do. You know, we're Christians, so people who do believe in the Lord Jesus, like, what better thing than to celebrate his birth. So, I think you're a little bit of a bah humbug. I would disagree. I would say that there are times and seasons for certain things and that Christmas does have its time and season. And that belongs within the month of December and even into January. I'm OK with that. But Christmas in July or this aspect of starting to prepare for Christmas season in May, I do find quite ridiculous. Yeah, I would do June to January, is my Christmas time tide, Christmas tide. That can be your own personal Christmas tide, I suppose, but that is definitely not the historical traditional view of what Christmas tide is. Yeah. So, um, for the January 6th, like we were talking about a while ago, that has been a good compromise for us at least, because I do notice for myself that I would get, I don't know if you want to call it like a seasonal depression, that seems extreme for what I was experiencing, but I'll definitely like Melancholy sadness. So by extending the festivities, the decorations, all that. That's definitely helped me the past couple of years, not have such a stark stop. And like, I feel like there's such a sudden stop that there's like a drastic steep in my attitude and my emotions. So this has been a grad helped me do a gradual decrease. Yes, I suppose so. And I guess for the start of the Christmas season, we've. Maybe had some back and forth over the years of our relationship and have, I think, pretty well settled that. Thanksgiving is. Thanksgiving and that there is no Christmas celebration on Thanksgiving or prior to Thanksgiving, but that perhaps we can start to get out the decorations on Black Friday, that being in The US that Friday immediately following our Thanksgiving in November on Thursday. And then perhaps even get a live Christmas tree that weekend, which is typically either the very last or I guess sometimes those dates may actually be the 1st or 2nd of December, depending on exactly when Thanksgiving falls on that Thursday. But that has been sort of our tradition for our family is to start the Christmas decorations. Immediately following Thanksgiving, but never on or prior. Right, except for one year, you say never, but we did do one year because you were out of town. And I was pregnant. So, before you left town, you took down all the decorations, so I wouldn't have to lift those heavy boxes. And then I decorated because they weren't there. That was the only year, and you also hung up the Christmas lights that year because again, you're gonna be gone. You're gonna be gone for quite a bit of December, so you did all that decorating before you left. Yes, I do recall that. I'm pretty certain that I did not allow you to turn on the Christmas lights until after Thanksgiving though. -- Or -- maybe you did it without my permission and I did not know. I don't remember. I really don't remember, but I do remember um. You bringing down the stuff, and I appreciate that. So yes, so under special circumstances, and I'd probably even be open to that in the future with, again, if there was extreme circumstances like that, but for all intents and purposes. Post Thanksgiving is the earliest that we start any sort of Christmas traditions or Christmas decorations. But what about this year was the shortest period of time between Thanksgiving and Christmas you can have. Because of how the calendar falls, and here in the US it's the 4th Thursday of the month. of November. This was the shortest amount of time in between Thanksgiving and Christmas. So I feel like we get gypped, and don't get a lot of time to do all the festivities. So you still don't think it's OK to do a couple before that? Correct. Why do you feel so strongly about this? Because Thanksgiving is its own thing and needs to have its own distinct celebration that is in no means. detracted from by the fact that there may be Christmas decorations or. Efforts going on with regards to decorating for Christmas. Basically, the majority or even all of your mental faculties and focus should be on Thanksgiving and not An upcoming holiday. Do you feel the same way about our child's birthday? We have a kid who's born in December. So he has to, and his birthday is right before Christmas. So everything always, even this year somebody gave him a gift and wrapped it in Christmas paper, and they're like, I'm so sorry, that's all we had. So, I mean, we've strived really hard to separate them. But he will always have Christmas stuff combined with his birthday. Is that OK? Well, doesn't that prove my point that there should be separate and distinct things and by starting Christmas so early that it does detract from Thanksgiving? I don't think so because for him. Yes, he'll always have Christmas stuff around, -- but I'm -- OK with this. So you're saying that we in the future don't have to start Christmas until after his birthday? No. Unless you're gonna let me start decorating in June. No, what I'm saying is the opposite of we can have this section and the day solely focused on him. And we have his favorite decorations up and stuff. I'm not taking down the Christmas decorations for him. We have areas that are designated to celebrate him, like a birthday banner and balloons and stuff. The kitchen table is all where we decorate with balloons and a banner and cake and all that for the birthday person. So I leave that area for him, just like on Thanksgiving, we would have the Thanksgiving table all decorated for Thanksgiving. I don't think it detracts at all. From his birthday or from Thanksgiving, if you have a tree or Christmas lights up. No, I'm still holding to my position that in the traditional sense of US holidays that Thanksgiving is Thanksgiving and you don't start thinking about Christmas until After that, maybe there's like the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade that concludes with Santa Claus on the float, and that's like sort of the, that's, that's tradition. That's the pivotal point that transitions you from Thanksgiving into Christmas would be Santa in the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade. I love, I've heard some people talk about this tradition in their family, and we don't have it for us, maybe one day. But and it's in movies a lot too, where after Thanksgiving dinner, the family decorates the tree. Because the whole family's there. Well, this does sound like a movie thing because there's actually logistics in getting a tree. If you have a tree, yeah. That would somehow like they don't show that in the movie like actually going to the store and buying the tree and like having it in the garage until Thanksgiving dinners made and making sure that somebody actually can go out and do it while other people are taking care of preparing the Thanksgiving dinner, etc. etc. So this does sound like a very fantastical thing that is in movies only. Right, OK. Well, this is another thing as I'm hearing you talk. Is it also the actual day for me? Doesn't hold a lot of weight. I'm fine celebrating Thanksgiving on a different day. I very much encourage Christmas on different days if it falls on a very inconvenient day. So, how do you feel about that then? Is it the specific day you have to do this, or if we said we're celebrating Thanksgiving on this day, cause you're not working or whatnot, then can we still set up the tree before the calendar says it's Thanksgiving? So I think that the day does have some importance to me in some sort of sentimental fashion with that Thursday. Now, there has been, I think, in more recent years. Perhaps the dilution of Thanksgiving Day being celebrated on different days. Now there's like Friendsgiving on the previous Thursday or something or there may be different work celebrations that have things that occur during normal working days so that they can have a holiday celebration and then still the official Thanksgiving Day is on that Thursday. So I do think that there is some. Importance to recognizing the actual day, but again, in extenuating circumstances, perhaps it's acceptable to quote unquote move it and recognize that other day as the day that you celebrate, but nonetheless, that the sequence of events is still the same, that if you do move Thanksgiving, you would still not celebrate. Christmas or even start to think about Christmas until after that. So perhaps there's an extenuating circumstance where you couldn't celebrate Thanksgiving until the following week, and then that would actually shorten your Christmas season by even another week. That would drive me insane, cause there are a lot of first responders, police officers, nurses, all that, that do have to work on Thanksgiving Day. I think that it's really awesome that they can celebrate with their family a day before, 2 days, whatever. And if you had a job like that, I would definitely celebrate whenever you had off, and we just tell the kids that for Thanksgiving. I suppose so. And I think that is what a lot of people do, but it still does not eliminate the fact that Christmas comes after Thanksgiving. OK. So then we do get our tree and start to decorate for Christmas. We hang up the lights and turn those on post Thanksgiving. I think that's again, culturally appropriate. I think you might get some maybe not people actually coming up and telling you outright, but definitely people would think in their minds that uh Might be a little bit out there if you have all those things turned on and set up prior to Thanksgiving. So again, there's some, there's maybe some cultural norms. Well, but we know that TV is trying to erode cultural norms anyway, so that might not be a good barometer. Well, there you go. I'm glad you agree with me. What? No, but what about another hypothetical? Because we've always lived apart across the country from at least one side of our family, sometimes both. We don't live relatively close to any of our extended family. So, say when our kids grow up. If they move away also, and they come back with their families, what if they can only come back November 20th? And we're like, you're here, we're gonna celebrate Christmas with the grandbabies. We're gonna have grandbabies one day, hopefully. Can we set out the Christmas lights and the trees and make it special for them then, or would you still be such a ba humbug that your poor granddaughter one day won't get a picture by the tree with you? So I guess I do reserve the right to change my mind, but There would be maybe a lot of different considerations to think about in this hypothetical situation. Like if this is the exclusive only time, maybe they're not even in country, maybe they're out of country and this is like 1 in 5 years that they're coming back or something. In that extreme circumstance, then yes, I would probably be open to celebrating quote unquote Christmas on November 20th and would even perhaps entertain. Having a tree and so on and so forth. But if it's just maybe a 1 in a 10 year exception, and this is the first time that it's happened and they've been present for other Christmases or we've gone to see them for other Christmases. And this is just a one-off situation, then I would be less apt to do anything special that is outside of the normal routine in order to do that. Yeah, fair enough, I agree. I, I mean, I can at least get on board with that. A funny story you're talking about, like, we decorate after. is you used to, not as much any longer. Black Friday used to be your busy time. And actually, when I worked, Black Friday was very quiet at my facility, but someone still had to be there. So, I often went cause you were gone, working, and it was actually a really fun time because that's the day that we decorated for the holidays, the whole facility. And so that was what I did that day. I loved it. And then when I started having kids and staying home with them, Black Friday became the day that we would decorate. And so I started, there's the one time, do you remember this? You were gone at work like usual for Black Friday, and me and the kids would just blast Christmas music and Christmas movies and just stay in Christmas pajamas that were ridiculous. And just decorate all day long, and it was just like this drawn out process. Cause also, I think it stresses you out to see boxes everywhere and things half done. So I took that opportunity while you were gone the whole day or weekend to do that stuff so you wouldn't see it. But you, I know, unknowing to me, you brought co-workers home in the middle of the day. Do you remember that? I was in pajamas that were a little tight. And not inappropriate, but they were like very kid-ish pajamas. I bought like a child size pajamas because I thought they were funny. And we had a bunch of little kids. Our sons were young. And then your co-worker showed up and I was like, oh, this is humiliating. -- Do you remember -- that? I do remember that event, yes. And that was one of the days that, like you said. It was usually the busy time, but we actually weren't that busy that day, -- so shopping and then you came to -- the spare time, yeah. Yeah, I love seeing you midday, but I wish I had gotten a text or something because I just felt so immature wearing like super childish pajamas. And blasting music and dancing around and being like, oh, hello adults that I've never met before, but, oh well, hopefully they don't remember, or maybe they just think I'm a fun person. Perhaps I don't know. It didn't really come up in conversation after the fact, so I'm unsure. Do you feel like they judged me or judged you for having a wife who does that? No, I don't think so. Good answer. Even if it's not the true one. So that is the entry into Christmas for our traditional method of doing so is always post Thanksgiving, but usually on that very first weekend after Thanksgiving. And then we have all the decorations and things set up and I do actually was thinking in my mind as you were talking that I do dislike all the boxes and Things out and about. So even before you mentioned that, that actually was in my mind. So that is true. And once all those things are out and decorated and put the boxes at least somewhat back to where they belong so that they're out of the way and out of sight, and we enjoy the Christmas season that we celebrate from that weekend post Thanksgiving until whenever Christmas ends, it seems like it goes on forever. No, it doesn't, never long enough. There's always a lot more stuff I wanna do, people I wanna see. And we always run out of movies we wanna watch. We always run out of time. So typically, we'll celebrate Christmas Eve with a church service. We'll do that at one of our local things. We've actually had a lot of different experience with that all the way from extremely loud rock music, all the way to very quiet and traditional. Candlelight services and different things in between. So that has always been a tradition that we do something in terms of a Christmas Eve service. And then depends on exactly where we are, but if we're at home, we'll do our own Christmas celebration at home and then. The decorations do stay up for at least 12 days, I suppose, even longer. I think there are some decorations that are still up to this very day. Really? No. Oh, yeah, there are. It's our bedroom decorations. Is that what you're thinking of? Yeah, I think maybe everything else has been -- put away and -- undecorated. They are there. I see them every night and think of it. We can get rid of them tonight. The reason that, so in our bedroom, we have, um, OK, well, in our bedroom, we had two small fake trees, like 4-foot trees that light up, and then some garland with lights. I removed the garland and lights. The two trees are still there because they need to go in a bag and I have to move my car to get to the bag and put them away. And I know I'm not gonna do that soon, so I don't want to take care of him downstairs. So that's why I, I do know that that needs to get done. That is true. And I guess the biggest sort of transition from Christmas season or Christmas tide into just the regular time of year and maybe looking forward to other birthdays or Easter or whatever the case may be is removal of the official Christmas tree, which usually, I think we've had a live tree, not a live tree, but like a traditional tree that is cut from a live tree. For almost every year. It's not been every year, but again, extenuating circumstances may have precluded us from getting a live tree in those certain years, but certainly a live tree is our tradition. Yeah, I think only 1 or 2 years in our marriage, we haven't had a live tree. And that was perhaps the happiest day of January. When I got rid of the tree. is when the tree was retired, which is the absolute opposite for me. I still thinking about it. I, all I can do to describe it is there's a hole in my heart, like I feel it. It's gone. The spot where the tree was is empty and my hole in my heart is empty now. And it made me so sad the other day, not sad, I guess that's unfair. But when you were like looked over, cause I did it while you were not here, we, I removed the ornaments and removed the tree from the house, and you look at like, oh, I feel so good. That that's gone. I was like, oh, I wanna cry that it's gone. So I don't know what to do with that tension of like the fact that That is such a life giving to you not to have it. And it literally feels the opposite for me. Well, I think part of it comes from the fact that for whatever reason, a lot of my stress versus comfort comes from the fact of visually appealing spaces that are not cluttered. And I feel that Christmas, while it is important to celebrate and decorate, that it can become somewhat cluttered and I have A certain patience for that, that I can again visually deal with it and see these things and not let it stress me out too much for a certain period of time, but then at some point that my patience wanes and then therefore, I'm very excited to get back to a normal undecorated. And uncluttered view of our living space. And one day we can talk about our versions of clutter. I think we need to do that because we have very different versions. Your clutter stresses me out beyond belief, so I'm sure my clutter stresses you out, like, I can see that. But it's funny when you talk about clutter cause I'm like, oh my goodness, you have so much clutter. So one day we'll dive into that. So our tree, for anyone listening, obviously you don't know, but our house in general, but a tree especially, is not curated. It is not gonna win a magazine, and though I think those trees are beautiful, like the white lights and all the matching ornaments in perfectly spaced. I love letting the kids put the lights wherever they want, and like they, throughout the season, they'll make ornaments and they hang them up, and it gets, the tree gets progressively worse as the season goes on. Because they keep adding stuff to it. But I love that. I love all their handmade things. I love how wonky it ends up looking at the end. So, is that what bothers you? Would you feel better if it was just a clean tree? It's interesting that you even said yourself that it gets worse as time goes on, because if you actually really love that, when you say that it gets better. Well, I mean like worse as in like a magazine, like when we first start out, like it's not gonna win a magazine award, but like, OK, kind of thing, you could enter the contest. And then as the season goes on, like, we're not entering that in the contest, that's not what home goods or whatever is looking for. Fair enough. No, that is a fine point. I was just pointing out that uh But in your own psyche that you were describing better or worse. OK, no, but if my kids are listening, I have them hang that stuff on the tree because I love it so much. I love seeing their drawings progress through the years. Those are my favorite ornaments, which we also can talk about how I thought we lost my favorite ornaments. Yes, perhaps that will be the last thing for this episode, but to answer your question in regards to the tree. I don't think it is the transition of the tree as time progresses. In fact, case in point, this year, the lights stopped working, and we specifically went and bought a new string of lights so that we could replace that string of lights that failed. Because we tried to repair it and it was apparently beyond repair or just needed a fuse that they haven't made in 5 years. So we just opted to buy the new string of lights and that took care of that. Yeah, no, I really appreciated you doing that because I wasn't going to spend the money to buy it. And it made me sad that I was like, well, I guess just the next couple days of Christmas, we're not gonna have lights. So it was really sweet that you went and bought them and we hung them around the tree. So I think actually what does get to me is just the cumulative effect of the amount of days. So seeing the Tree and other decorations over and over again and just not having the routine visual of a quote unquote normal living space, I think is what is additive in nature, that at some point I just reach a particular breaking point and just become stressed at that. And it's not necessarily that I require that it be taken down or that I have, you know, things that are removed from the decorative nature of the household, but it just becomes stressful to me. And when those things are then removed or put away, it does feel as quite a bit of relief to me. Do you feel the same way about fall decorations? I do. We have them longer. I mean, -- it's less -- amount. There's a, yes, there's a far less amount. They're also, I think, less intrusive. The other thing that is also additive in here is just the sheer amount of things that we have within the house, and I guess that's just because of the nature of having kids and the materialistic society that we live in, that there's just a lot of stuff that is. Added to living space during this time as well. -- So perhaps that like -- all the gifts, the gifts, yes, I'm talking about the gifts. OK. So by the end of the Christmas season, because all the gifts are there and around the house. That's stressful for you. Precisely. OK. That's fair enough. It still makes me sad. I still, as we're talking about this, guys, I need to talk to someone, I guess, because as we're talking about this, I, my heart literally feels like it has a hole in it. I'm so sad about thinking about no more tree decoration. I had, there's still, there's still out there. As soon as we leave our recording studio here, -- you'll see some Christmas -- trees. I haven't plugged them in in days, so I should go plug them in tonight? I will allow you to do that if that makes you feel better for one night. OK. But also, I do little things like we've extended it. It's not a hard stop on the twenty-sixth any longer. We extend it and we gradually take stuff down. That's helpful. And also, I still have battery operated candles that could be colors, and I always like every morning. Almost every morning at least, I wake up before anyone else and I do like some mindfulness and journaling and Bible study, and I always turn on the lights then, and then in the evening too, I always turn them on. And that bothers you too though, right? You've said that you don't like when I turn them on at in the evenings. I don't mind if they're all white or if they're a different variety of colors, but like when they're the green, red, green, red, green, red, and explicitly Christmas themed, that's really the only thing that bothers me. No, but right now I'm letting them be like on a rotation. They change. Yeah, they were fine. Yeah, they were the rotation of colors was fine. All right. And so that's a good compromise maybe because it's helping me see some of those lights and prettiness and not bothering you. Precisely. So for our final topic, this episode is trash bags and what they may contain. And usually, when I see a trash bag, I assume that it contains trash and put it in the trash can. But you said. Know what's in the contents first. Sometimes I do go through the trash to make sure that you're throwing things away that shouldn't be thrown away. You do. You go through when I declutter, you go through. See, this just shows that my patience is completely gone by the end of the Christmas season that I will just throw anything away because I just want to get rid of extra stuff. OK, so first background, 3 years ago, our plastic tote that I put our Christmas tree decorations in broke. So I kept waiting to go to the store to buy a new one. It, I just didn't get around to it. So I put it in my trash bag, that trash bag ended up being shoved somewhere in the garage. By next Christmas, we had, you know, we'd forgotten about it. By next Christmas, we couldn't find it. I looked everywhere, I thought, and I was like, we must have just thrown it away. I remember putting it in all these items in a trash bag, waiting to buy the tote. I never did, bummer. Well, months later, after Christmas, we did find it. It was safe. All our keepsake ornaments were OK. So this year, I thought I learned my lesson. I was taking things off again, we did not have access to the tote, the plastic bin that we put stuff in. So I got another trash bag and we started putting stuff in that. -- And I -- thought, as in you and the kids, not me, because I would not have taken the shortcut. I would have gotten the correct container. Because you were sick in bed and I did not. I was doing something nice for you by taking the tree down. Fair enough. Another topic that we can delve into at another episode. Labor of love. Taking shortcuts versus doing the right thing. Labor of love for you. So I was sick and I was unable to help proceed. So I'm putting them in the trash bag again, I could not get to the area that had the plastic bin. So I put the trash bag and what I thought was a safe spot because I did not want it to get mixed up with trash and thrown away like I thought happened a couple of years ago. So that happens. About a week or so later, I realized like, oh no, where did that trash bag go? And you were like, oh, I threw it away. And there were trash bags in the garage staged for the outdoor trash. There were things there in those trash bags, but I guess that after the fact that we found out were legitimately trash, but those were put in the trash can and the trash had been picked up. And so therefore, we thought there was a real possibility that Perhaps one of those trash bags was what contained the ornaments and other keepstakes and was unretrievable because the trash had already been picked up. Yeah. And so I had so many emotions because one, I'm thankful that you take care of the trash. I know it's a cliche or a trope, but I often do take the trash out of the trash bag and then I just put it in the garage, and then you take it down the steps outside, all that. I'm thankful you do that. And so I was frustrated with myself that I did not take care of the trash bag properly, but I thought I did. So then I was like all these emotions, plus the emotions of all the keepsake ornaments, all their drawings through the years, all their handprints, all their Our kids' handprints and stuff. All these really special moments that were gone. Plus, the lights that you had just bought the week before were gone, and those are expensive lights. So I was like, great, like, now we have to buy more Christmas lights. So, I asked you You're like, yeah, I threw them away. I was frustrated because I wrote on the bag, like not trash. Like, if you looked at it at all, there definitely wasn't trash in it. So I was like, a lot of emotions. And I know I made you feel bad too. And so it was, it was a rough little bit of time. How do you feel? Were you mad at me or yourself? Yeah, maybe a mix of emotions because perhaps I was frustrated at the fact that there's a trash bag being used to keep Important things. There was perhaps the failure of procedure with the fact that a trash bag was staged in the normal area that trash would go and therefore I was following the normal process of moving said trash into the trash bin. And then I was also perhaps a bit upset. With myself because of upsetting you, but then also because of the financial impact of having to buy new ornaments and lights and etc. Yeah, exactly. So it was all these emotions. Thanks for sharing that because that's how I felt bad afterwards, like, uh, all he was doing is taking the trash out. Why am I being so grumpy about this? But I felt like I took so many steps, just not every step. Anyways, long story, I finally found the bag because I knew you would throw it away. So I hid it really well, so you would not throw the ornaments away. They are safe. We have them, they're in the proper taupe now, waiting for next year. And I guess you hid them so well that you forgot yourself where they were. Yeah, I think what happened was I put them where I often put the stuff for the, to go in the garage, but then I was like, no, he's gonna throw those away. So I moved it and yeah, that's what happened because I remember last couple of years ago thinking we threw everything away, did not let that happen again. And we're safe, we're good. But I don't know how many more times I'm gonna do this before I learn my lesson. Well, to some degree, you did learn your lesson because you knew I would be predictable and throw those things away if you had left them in a certain spot and Therefore, did not leave him in the certain spot. So, y'all, if you have better trash bags for Christmas decorations, like, maybe I just need to get some colored ones. Would that help? I don't know. Tell me what you guys do because obviously what I'm doing is not working. Or just use trash bags for trash. Yeah, but then where I put the ornaments? That's the greatest question of all time. So, from your friends at I hate talking, until next time, remember, it is only through talking that we begin the journey to understanding.