Reflections on the Truth and Theories Around the January 2025 Air Disasters

 Word of the Episode: Per Se

• The episode centers on the phrase "per se", often miswritten as one word but correctly written as two ("per se"). The hosts discuss its meaning: "by or in itself; intrinsically." For example, "It is not these facts per se that are important" means the facts themselves aren’t what matter most.
• The hosts share a personal anecdote about mistakenly writing "per se" as one word in previous show notes and being corrected by spellcheck, leading to this episode’s topic.

Scouting Skit Story

• The hosts recount a humorous story about preparing a scouting skit, choosing one that accommodates a range of ages and personalities. They joke about the "short runway airplane" skit and share a pun that initially went unnoticed.

Discussion of Recent Air Disasters

• The conversation shifts to two tragic airspace events in January 2025:
  1. Mid-Air Collision: A passenger jet and a military Black Hawk helicopter collided over Washington, DC, with no survivors. The hosts discuss the details, including:
     • The jet was on an alternate approach as instructed by air traffic control.
     • The helicopter was flying higher than its usual route.
     • There was speculation about whether the jet or helicopter was at fault, but it appears both were following protocols.
     • Air traffic control’s role is examined, noting the high-stress, high-burnout nature of the job, especially at busy airports like Reagan National.
     • One passenger may have texted a loved one about something feeling "off" before the crash.
  2. Empathy for Victims: The hosts express sympathy for those affected, reflecting on how such tragedies change families forever.

Broader Reflections

• The episode touches on the complexity and stress of air traffic control, the challenges of maintaining attention in high-stakes jobs, and the importance of empathy for those involved in such incidents.
• The hosts also note that while their podcast isn’t "conspiracy" themed per se, they sometimes discuss topics that are "conspiracy adjacent."

Conclusion

• The episode blends a language lesson on "per se" with thoughtful discussion of recent aviation tragedies, personal anecdotes, and reflections on responsibility, empathy, and the pressures of high-stakes professions.

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Any views expressed on this podcast are those solely of the hosts and is for entertainment purposes only. None of the content is medical advice or financial advice.

Special thanks to Tim Wright aka CoLD SToRAGE for his permission to use the song Operatique.

Transcript

I Hate Talking: 0:29

Welcome to episode 45 of I Hate Talking. Hi everyone. So, our word or phrase comes from a word that was in the show notes from I think 2 episodes ago now, and that is the word per se. OK. Now, have you heard of the word per se? Yeah, so, I mean, I don't know if I can define it. I use it in a sentence, I feel like. Not quite believing something, right? Or like, Um, but someone's told you, so you take them at their word. Perhaps on a bit of the right track there. Now, it's interesting to note that it is not one single word and if you read the show notes, uh, at least maybe perhaps two days after it was released, you would have seen it as one word, but that was actually not correct and it has been corrected since into the correct two words, per, P E R S E. OK. Now, the reason I bring this up and the reason that it is our word or phrase of the episode is because I thought it was really one word and so when I wrote the show notes, I wrote it as one word and spell checker caught that and said that this is not a word, but it did not suggest splitting it into two words per se. So I just figured that I guess per se is no longer a modern. Often used word and we're gonna use it anyway. And I even checked in the dictionary and looked up P E R S E as one word and quickly glanced at it that it existed and it had a definition, but I failed to note that based on whatever font it was that there was a space in between pur and say. So that is the reason that we're talking about the, I guess you call it phrase or a set of words. Per se. OK, cool. So it is two words. And already have said that it's per say, and it is as defined by our favorite Oxford language dictionary meaning by or in itself or themselves. In other words, intrinsically. So they use it in an example sentence here. It is not these facts per se that are important. So I think you're on a little bit of the right track there that it's maybe unrelated or. Some of the things that you described there in and of themselves, but that it is. Of itself intrinsically being described. OK, repeat it again. The definition. Oxford Language Dictionary defines per se as by or in itself or themselves intrinsically. Now the example sentence perhaps is a bit confusing because it actually uses it in the negative sense, where it says it is not these facts per se that are important. So the facts in and of themselves are not important, whatever they're comparing. Now if the example sentence read that these facts per se are important, that means that the facts. In and of themselves are actually important. OK. All right, yeah, I can get that. So we are not a conspiracy podcast per se, but some of our episodes are perhaps conspiracy related and I think we even touch on some topics and subjects that are conspiracy adjacent and maybe we'll do that in this particular episode when we talk about a variety of things that have been happening in our airspace as of this January 2025. OK, yeah. Now, before we get to that, just a funny story that I think is funny and maybe others will think it was funny, and I'll share this episode and other people can laugh at this particular story. And we were at a particular event this evening for scouting and part of scouting is doing skits or songs or different forms of entertainment during all the festivities that happen at these type of scouting events and I was responsible for helping one of the groups. Practice and perform their skit and it was with a group of kids that maybe had different levels or different ages and just had a variety of talent and skill within the skit performance type of thing. That's nice of you to say. So I was looking for a skit and there was one that came to mind. That I thought it would be good because of, again, the variety of skill levels and ages. So I started looking up the short runway airplane skit and then I thought to myself, this is not gonna fly. I read that one today too. So, you had casted me on the um like, can you, do you know any good ones? Um, And we've done a lot of them, so we're like asking like, which one should we do? And so I pulled up the list for scouts that they have recommended. And that was one of my clicked on. I was like, oh this looks, but I thought when I heard runway, I thought like maybe models. And uh like a model runway. And so I clicked on it, instead of reading it, I was like, oh, that's, this isn't timely. And so it's funny that you checked that one out today too. Well, it actually came to mind because of that very fact on just the variety of skill levels because I knew that one and that is the reason that I was looking at that one is because. There's certain parts that somebody that is more brave or loudspoken, talkative, that they'll have a certain part that they can do and then there's maybe somebody that's more reserved that still can play a part but doesn't have a lot of speaking things in there. So that's the reason that I was looking that up. And apparently my, that's not gonna fly joke, either flew over your head or it just crashed. When did you hear Yeah, did you say that earlier? I did say that earlier. Oh, it did fly over my head that I missed it. That is funny. I laughed this time. Well, there you have it. So hopefully our listeners are laughing too. Now, as we turn to a more serious note, there are people that are not laughing because they have lost loved ones in a variety of air catastrophes that have happened in the United States this January 2025. So perhaps we can. Just relate and reflect on some of those things and just see where that leads us. Yeah, I think, I mean, well, it's February now, but it is February now. Did both of these events happen in January though, right? They did. And I guess it is only two events, right? I mean, you, I guess, well, in January is over, so two events in January. Yeah, but first, I mean, like you said. They're not laughing matters. There are people that are heartbroken right now, and families that will forever be changed. So, we'll pray for them and think about them. And um Yeah, so let's get to talking about it, I guess. Exactly. So, Perhaps we can, for those that are not aware of this particular events that we can just do a flyover of the facts as we know them and And maybe dive into some of the details or maybe even some of the conspiracy theories that Surround these events. Mhm. So the first event that took place, I don't know the exact date, but it was basically a mid-air collision between a passenger jet and a military helicopter that occurred in Washington DC sometime at night, so it was relatively dark at this point in time. And I believe that as of the latest report that there are no survivors and nor do they expect to have any survivors. Right. I think um. When I was following it, kind of live, I'm pretty sure that within the hour they called, that it was, there were no to the fibers. They went from like a rescue mission to a um What's it called, like not a recon, but like a recovery recovery, there you go, a recovery after that because they flew into the Potomac River, and because of how cold it was, I think they only said they had like 15 minutes max or so. Yeah, that's probably true. I'm sure that river was very cold and it wasn't that they landed in the river per se. It's more that they crashed because the both aircraft, I believe, came apart in the air because of the collision. So it is by no means have a touchdown of any kind onto the river. Right. And also, um, I mean, this is super sad news, but also one of the, there's not a silver lining, but if there was, most people have been hearing talk about it. are saying like only comfort we find in this is that They probably weren't aware. There was no like anticipation of it happening, nor was their extended pain. Like, um, their end came pretty quickly, so they weren't in agony for a long. Yeah, perhaps so. I did not follow this live. I was dealing with a variety of other things at the particular time, but did see some of the headlines and maybe did a little bit of light reading on this after the fact. So I'm sure that there are more details that are out there at this point in time, but we can sort of again just Reflect on what we know about the events, but I did actually see that there was maybe somebody that was either on the phone or texting, which that's not really supposed to happen, but I guess they were doing that nonetheless, and that one of these particular people that was somehow exchanging information with a loved one on the ground did relate that something was. Wrong or happening that was odd on the plane on the plane, yes, I hadn't heard that. OK. Now, there actually was something odd that was happening on the plane because this was a regional jet that was operated by some other minor airlines, but under the subsidiary, I believe of American Airlines and for Kansas, I believe, going into DC and it did not follow the normal approach. So perhaps that was somebody that was familiar with this particular flight and knew that they were not going in the normal route, but they were actually Advised by air traffic control to take this alternative approach into the particular runway that they were assigned. Right, cause I mean completely. Uh, kind of a little different. Obviously, we were never in a plane crash, thank the Lord, but If they say they might be familiar with it, they're like, wait a minute, this isn't right, this doesn't feel right, it's taking longer, right? They could message the person and let them know. Um, because like we've had a circumstance about a year or two ago where we were flying into a city. Yeah, I was All but raised in, I know the city really well, and we land and we're like, woohoo, we're here. And then they announced, like, oh no, we had to detour. And we're somewhere else, and we had to like dip. It was like a big old mess. But afterwards I thought about it. I was like, oh, like if I looked out the window, obviously this is not the city. I know the city, we are not there. But, so like you're saying that if they're looking out the window, or if they know the time stamps and all that, they know, wait a minute, this is not the usual route we take. Could be, don't know exactly the details on perhaps what that person related and again, we're just going off of some surface headlines and some other things. So maybe you even know as you're listening to this, some additional details that you would want to make sure others can see, so you could comment appropriately and accordingly on this particular episode. And then the The jet collided, or maybe it's more apt to say that the helicopter collided with the jet. There was a military, I believe Black Hawk helicopter that was flying a route over the Potomac that was the 2nd aircraft involved in this incident. Right, yeah, I think, I mean, from my perspective, it definitely looked like the Black Hawk was the one that ran into the plane. And also I feel like they would have more. maneuver and ability to move quickly to get out of the way. Uh, so when I see all these headlines talking about this jet ran into the Black Hawk, like, wait, like, you're making it sound like it's the airline pilot's fault. And I feel like that's probably not the case. Not sure. Not sure. It does seem that the jet was following all the particular protocols because they were on this alternative approach, but that was as they were instructed to do, or perhaps had requested to do and were allowed to do. And we're. Following the route accordingly. Now, the helicopter, from what I've read is that that is a normal route, but that that route is flown at 200 ft versus the 300 or 350 ft elevation that they were actually at during the collision. So, if he had lowered 100 ft 150 ft, there wouldn't have been an issue. So I just felt like the power between them is the wind power and stuff would still cause problems, right? No, I don't believe it would have caused a catastrophic event. There maybe would have been a little bit of turbulence, but a, and it still would have been, I think, considered a near miss. I forget the exact distance that would be used to determine if there was a near miss or a near collision. But I believe that both aircraft would have been fine in that scenario if the aircraft had been 100 or 150 ft lower. Now there is also the issues of air traffic control because there was, as far as I've seen, no reports that they made any indication to avert this particular collision, even though there was some video that I saw of not sure either like a recreated or it said it was from the actual. Air traffic control screen where it will pop up an alert that says CA for collision alert, and that would be the indication that The computer is giving to the ATC person that there is a potential collision and that they need to take action to inform the particular aircraft to change course and things of that nature. Right, and obviously we do not know. Everyone who is involved in this. So we can't say like 100%, but in general, Like pilots for both helicopters and airplanes, I believe, do their best. Obviously, they don't want to die, so they're gonna do their best to save their lives and everyone else's. And um air traffic controllers, I feel like they have a really hard job. And maybe I'm incorrect in this, maybe I'm naive thinking it, but I feel like a lot of the time, they probably just stare at a screen. And everything's automated, and they're just like, yep, yep, yep, kind of thing. I feel like it would be an easy thing to kind of, I'm not saying these people did this, but I feel like it'd be easy to kind of uh zone out, I would zone out. Uh, when I'm looking at something, if there's not action, I tend to like Power off and uh zone down, like zone out. So, I feel like it's a really hard job because you have to override that instinct to just autopilot and Any other term, you know, for, uh, um. Air traffic controller, cause you have to be alert and pay attention at all times. And if they're doing multiple things at a time, How can they give something that's full attention and talk to multiple people? At any given moment. That is true, and I am not an air traffic controller, but I have heard air traffic control. Interchanges between aircraft and the air traffic controller person. And I don't think that they have the opportunity to zone out per se. I think there's actually a lot of activity, especially in these particular larger airports where basically they are in constant streaming communication with a variety of aircraft. They will, during their busy times, be talking to the next aircraft immediately after they sign off and Perhaps hand off the, the plane to ground control once they have landed or hand off to the next airport that is responsible for the airspace once they have taken off that at these larger airports, they are going to be constantly busy and watching the screens and communicating with the different aircraft. Now, it might be different at a smaller regional airport that does not have as much traffic. But in these areas that have multiple large airports, they're going to be extremely busy, 100% of their time, and I think air traffic control, at least again, perhaps that these larger airports has one of the highest burnout rates and they're typically considered similar to like a 911 call operator where they are constantly under stress, constantly under the attention. That they need to provide to make sure that everything's running smoothly and that there is actually quite a bit of activity for these particular roles. Interesting. And did you know that Reagan Airport was like the biggest, or one of the busiest airports or Air traffic? Air traffic, yeah, because they are sort of in that area of DC they're gonna have traffic coming in. Or over rather from Dallas and other routes. So, um, I think actually some of the Baltimore routes pass through that area as well. So not only are they handling all the traffic that is landing and taking off from that particular airport, there's a lot of traffic that passes through that airport airspace in order to get to some other very busy airports as well. Interesting. OK. Yeah, I guess that would make more sense. I kept thinking like, how I never thought that before, nor did I learn it until the other day. And it shocked me cause I thought like LAX or one of the New York airports, like, I felt like they'd be much busier. But since they're on the far coast, I guess they don't have a lot of flyover traffic. Exactly. OK. But wouldn't there be an issue with flyover traffic in DC with like, The presidents and all of the Senate and All that there? Why would they want so much traffic overhead that they can't control, like, Disney controls the air traffic there. You cannot fly over Disney. So, wouldn't the uh government have that same power Disney has? Well, that probably actually adds to the complexity because they're running routes that are restricted because of restricted airspace, so they can't use all the sky. They actually have to route things around the White House or other government buildings, so they actually have less space to work with because those are restricted areas and more like a funnel then at that point. Right, and there's just a lot of large cities with busy airports on the eastern seaboard in that area. Many in DC there's like I mentioned, Baltimore and maybe some other ones that are going to be routed around that particular area. OK. And that I guess is probably the reason that that might be the busiest from like an air traffic control perspective. There's a variety of stats on airports with regards to traffic or passenger planes that I think that actually busiest airport by just volume of planes is. Atlanta or Memphis, one or the other. Do you know, do you know why? Um, No, not a clue. It's a FedEx hub, so it's all cargo planes. So most of that's like packages and stuff. Precisely. OK. So that is. Some of the things that we, I guess, know as far as we can know on what happened. And then there was another incident in January, now in February, obviously, but the incident took place in January in Philadelphia. Yeah, I didn't follow this one as closely, so you can definitely take the lead on it, but um, Because by this point, this says more about me, I guess, than the story. But by this point, I was like, of course, there's another airplane. There's like always all these air like, Constantly. We had the really big airplane crash, and then like a day or two after, there's another one. And so I was like, oh yeah, of course, we just had another one of these. Uh, so go ahead and you talk about it more cause you know more details on it. I haven't delved into a ton of details. I've, again, just seen some of the headlines, but I do know that this happened in Philadelphia. Now, it actually did not have anything to do with a particular aircraft that was Destined for Philadelphia or coming out of Philadelphia but was somehow over top of Philadelphia. And basically crashed and More than a 45 degree angle, like angled straight down nearly into an area within Philadelphia and Obviously at those speeds and things of that nature, there's not gonna be any survivors either. And then I believe that crash actually happened at some kind of mall parking lot. And I believe there was one confirmed death from a person on the ground that was injured and deceased from that particular crash. Yeah, I mean that is crazy, like how often we see airplanes overhead. I never have had the fear that it's gonna fall on me. Not even after watching Breaking Bad? I can't even remember what you're reference. I mean, I know Breaking Bad. I don't remember that reference. OK, well, spoiler alert, if you haven't watched Breaking Bad, -- there is -- a 5 seconds. There's a mid-air collision and like the pieces of the plane land in the pool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. OK, do you remember I forgot. And the air traffic controller is the father of like a particular. Main character within the series. Yeah, OK, do you remember that? That was like almost a decade ago or probably more so. OK, I do remember, yes. So that is. Very rare in television and I think very rare in real life, but it did happen two times in January, so that's why we're talking about it. So something also though, I found super and I learned through all this that was interesting to me was how rare these sort of Incidents are Like, often you'll hear about like a plane with like two people on it or whatnot that crashes. And sometimes you'll hear stuff from overseas. But you used to travel for a living. People would often ask me if I was really nervous about your profession and how often you were on a plane. And, I mean, obviously, there was some concern there, but overall, I just had to trust that it would work out. And uh you know, I've heard stats that this was the first. Big incident like this in like 16 years. Yeah, I believe that's probably true. So the, uh, it is relatively rare and also sort of odd that there's these two incidents right next to Each other back to back. Do you think that there's a reason why, or is that just a weird Are we more aware of it, or is that a weird coincidence, or is there something else going on? Well, that's a very good question. And for those listeners that only want to hear the facts, now's your time to turn off this episode because the rest of this episode, we're going to dive into some theories, maybe even conspiracy theories. -- How do you say we're -- not a conspiracy theory podcast per se. But we are conspiracy adjacent. So there are some things out there that I've seen that perhaps this was just because of a number of coincidences that we've already mentioned that this particular jet was on a different route on an abnormal approach, although an approved one, that the helicopter was at the wrong altitude. One thing that we did not mention that we've heard is that there was actually one air traffic controller that was doing two jobs, so they're actually like manning 2 stations and running 2 frequencies, which is typically never allowed, but they were supposedly understaffed, so that may have also led to part of the issues here. Yeah, I hadn't heard that. You were the one that told me that, but I had heard that the air traffic controller talked to the helicopter right beforehand. But they weren't even able to finish their like sentence or the response beforehand, and the airplane did not get any notification. Right, and that would make sense because if there were two air traffic controllers, one might have been in charge of sort of that traffic just passing through the airspace that we've already alluded to, versus the air traffic controller that is responsible for all the incoming planes that are actually landing at that particular airport. So some have said that this is just a result of President Trump's freeze on hiring and some of the staffing issues. I guess there's also supposedly an email sent to all of the FAA that said. Don't get fired or something like that effect or like your jobs are on the line or something with the before all this happened before all this happened with the the government efficiency uh thing that that they're starting up. So that was some of the things that I've seen as it relates to the understaffing issue and perhaps some of the shortcuts or issues with the actual FAA procedures related to this event. OK. So why would they, or they just so understaffed? Why would they put a helicopter and a jet plane under the same individual? It makes sense, right, to have All airplanes together cause they're on the same frequency and helicopters together on the same frequency. Well, I think it has more to do with the passing through traffic versus the incoming traffic and that normally and even procedurally, that would be two separate people, but because of understaffing issues, that was just one single person supposedly. OK. Then there's some wild conspiracy theories that I've seen that perhaps there was somebody on that particular airplane that someone wanted taken out or that in some way the helicopter had somebody that they needed it to dispose of that being the powers that be per se, and that basically the helicopter intended to fly into the jet or was even Remote controlled to fly into the jet. Yeah, I've heard that a lot, remote control, like someone overpowered. The driver. Um, what do you think about, OK, first, we have to preface that we have so much respect for our military and the people serving our country. Uh, we have lots of family members that have or are currently serving, and we really appreciate them. What are your thoughts? So there are 3 in the Black Hawk, 2 have been identified, and 1, the family refuses to identify. Why do you think that is? Most likely, the media sensation. I've actually not recalled such media craze around an event like this and perhaps like you said, maybe it's just because It is the first in a very long while that there is so much media interest, as well as maybe even real interest by the public. Again, maybe that's manufactured again. Who knows, you can look up Project Mockingbird and read more about that, or maybe we'll do an episode on that. Yeah, I don't know what that is. Will you teach me? Well, that is about how the news is manufactured to control public opinion. At a high level. And there's a lot of information coming out about who was on the plane, like the ice skaters and these other people that had Important roles within society and things like that. That I think perhaps that person that refuses to disclose who else was on that helicopter is just avoiding that. That would be the most sensible sort of response, I think and reason. OK. Now, perhaps more the conspiracy-minded theorists would say that it is because they were a high profile military person or something of that nature that they won't. Disclose or release who the third person was in the helicopter because they were either publicly known and famous in some sort of way or perhaps related to a particular military branch or contingent that would be odd to be operating with the Black Hawk crew. Or there maybe was the 3rd person that I, as I mentioned in the again, conspiracy theory, wild theories that are out there, probably not true is that this particular person was the one that they needed to dispose of. Yeah, I mean, I feel like it's probably just they're not Facebook people. They don't like their photos and names publicly announced probably. You know, conspiracy people start going crazy about it, and um It makes me sad. If, um, because I feel like. Maybe they just don't want the backlash, like, have people been like, well, the Black Hawk ran into the jet, it's their fault, but they don't want that person getting blamed. But, um, It makes me sad cause I feel like usually in military when someone passes while they're at work, especially. They get a lot of dues and honor and So it's a kind of a bummer that this individual who was ever in our country. And let's assume For the right reasons, because we do not know otherwise. It's a bummer they're not getting the dues they deserve or the sacrifice they made. Yep, that is most likely true, but we may never know. So that is some of the conspiracy theories that I've seen. About the DC incident. There's less information on the Philadelphia incident. I was actually doing a little bit of reading while we were taking a break here that the medevac jet that crashed actually did depart from Philadelphia. So, as I mentioned earlier in the episode, I thought it was just passing over Philadelphia, but it actually did originate from Philadelphia and was heading to Mexico. And it was 6 people on that particular aircraft, and I believe one of them was a young girl that had just received medical treatment and her and her mother, along with 4 other people, probably most of them crew, I would imagine, or medical staff were heading back to Mexico to go back home. That is so sad, yeah. Fly all the way to Philadelphia or wherever they were. For medical treatment. Obviously it had to be very serious. Just to lose your life later on the way home. Correct. Now, there are some conspiracy theories about that particular incident as well. There's some people saying that it was a missile. I don't think that is even remotely true. It was obviously this aircraft, there's a lot of information about it that it was an aircraft. Now, there are people saying that there was some strange messages from the pilot perhaps that they said something to the effect of they don't know who they messed with or something to that effect before crashing. Again, this is non-substantiated information that probably is not true, but again, Interesting things that you hear about these particular circumstances that are, again, relatively odd. So that is what makes me personally give pause and just reflect on what is actually going on because it is such a strange occurrence in and of itself that perhaps there are some other facts that are important to the whole narrative. So for that. Accident. What is the main media or the main Um, narrative going forward, what happened to the plane. The official narrative is that they have no idea. That's all that I've seen even from some news articles as of 4 hours ago when we are recording this. So just a few days after the incident that they still really don't have any idea what happened, just that they did depart and gained some altitude from the Philadelphia airport and then made this steep descent and crashed. Also, just a completely different tangent. This terrifies me for like self-driving airplanes, like how people are, one day we'll just, instead of driving on the street, we'll drive in the air. And how many accidents and even fender benders we have seen daily. Could you imagine a fender bender in the air? Like, when you're crashing down, like I don't want self-driving airplanes. Or maybe there was the actual automated alerts on the screen, supposedly of the air traffic control screens that said that there was a collision alert if it was autonomously controlled, they would have seen that alert and took evasive action. Maybe, or you just get those notifications like you do on the car when it's like you're veering into the other lane and then you turn it off because you're like, yeah, you're I'm not veering through the other lane, that's a shadow, stop yelling at me. Right, or the computers just crash and then you're really gonna be out of luck. Yeah. And then I didn't expect this episode to go this long, but I guess we had a lot to reflect on as we were talking about these things because we did not even get to the New Jersey drones and orbs that I thought would be part of the conspiracy theory conversation. So maybe we'll save that for another time or. Maybe we'll move on to Project Mockingbird or maybe we will finally return to some of the topics that we have alluded to and still not gotten to, such as keto, yes, keto is out there and sourdough, I think is out there and a whole variety of other things, but If any of those topics sound good to you, our listener, let us know, we can prioritize those or maybe there's something else completely different that you would like to hear our thoughts on. You can let us know by sending us an email or leaving a comment or even sending us a text. And if you have enjoyed this episode, either the fact-based part or the theory-based part. Like, share, subscribe, and we will do this again some other time. So, from your friends at I hate Talking, until next time, remember, it is only through talking that we begin the journey to understanding.