On the Fly Daylight Savings Time Discussions

 We talk about the definition, usage, history, and etymology of the phrase "on the fly", as requested by a listener. Where do you think that phrase came from? See if you're right; there's actually two different prevailing theories on the origin of that phrase.

Then we have a conversation on Daylight Savings Time, the impact it has on our lives, and potential alternatives to this practice. Enjoy all the results of our mid-episode research, but through the magic of podcast editing you don't have to wait around while we do our online searches and research.

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Any views expressed on this podcast are those solely of the hosts and is for entertainment purposes only. None of the content is medical advice or financial advice.

Special thanks to Tim Wright aka CoLD SToRAGE for his permission to use the song Operatique.

Transcript

I Hate Talking: 0:29

Welcome to episode 49 of I Hate Talking. Hi everyone. So as you can tell, we're back to our standard format. There was only one week of a non-standard format, but we are back to our standard format. All right, so we're going to tackle a listener requested phrase of the episode, and it is a particular idiom, so maybe we'll have a twofer on this particular episode because I don't know if we've ever defined idiom before. I think we maybe used the word or talked about it in some very early episodes, but I don't think we ever defined idiom. Yeah, I don't think so. Hm. And this was my fear that if I did not document every word that we did that we might actually do a repeat. But I don't think it is, but you, our listeners, if this is a repeat, you can keep us honest and let us know. Right, and if we forgot, and probably other people, or maybe I always have to like refresh myself cause I forget what things mean. So it's a good refresher. Well, that's true. So, idiom from our favorite Oxford language dictionary is a noun which means a group of words established by usage. As having a meaning not deducible from those of the individual words. OK. So it's basically an expression or a particular phrase of speech that people may use within their own locales and their own languages. So for example, for English, the Oxford Language Dictionary gives the example that it is raining cats and dogs. OK, so it is not literally raining cats and dogs, but that is the idiom that describes the torrential downpour. OK. So the listener requested phrase is on the fly, on the fly. OK. So we have not done any previous research on the etymology or even the meaning of that particular phrase. So I guess we'll be doing this phrase of the episode on the fly. Nice, that's appropriate. So what comes to mind when you think on the fly, either as it's used or perhaps maybe where it may have originated from? OK, well, if I were to hear that, I would think that like, just make it up as you go. We'll figure it out. So, I would feel like it comes from Um, I don't even know. See, I'm not, I'm not good at being on the fly. My head goes to two things, either an airplane. I'm like, no, but they need to know where they're going. You don't just get to make up your flight path as you go, hopefully. And then the others like an actual fly. I'm like, well, do they know where they're going at all times, right? The insect, uh you have to fly and perhaps it is interesting to note that fly has a lot of different meanings and a lot of different contexts that it can be used in the insect, the verb, the noun. Even the way that it's used as slang to describe something as cool back in the day. Pretty fly for a white guy. Exactly. So, I would agree it's something that, like you said, you make up as you go, you figure it out as you're proceeding down whatever particular thing that you're doing, and that is on the fly. You don't necessarily have a plan. But you are just going with the flow, which is perhaps another idiom that is in the same vein, but nonetheless, I don't really know or even have any guess where this particular phrase would have come from. If I had to guess, I would maybe say something related to the military with like the Air Force or something way back in history where The pilot is going to do something on the fly and they're gonna do something as they're flying, they're going to make their plans. So I guess that's sort of along the lines of what you were thinking, but I would consider it more maybe in the military tactics kind of flight. Cause they'd have to make a quick decision then. Right, the, the Air Force pilot or whomever would need to make a quick decision and they're doing that on the fly. OK, yeah, I'll buy that. Cause when I was picturing like a commercial aircraft, I was like, yeah, they can't just switch up. But yes, a military would need to. Alright, so now let's actually find out what it means and where it came from. Alright, so now through the magic of podcast editing, we are back with the answer, or at least what we think might be the answer based on actually some conflicting information. Now, it is pretty consistent that it does mean something that is done while in motion or while in progress, that is how the Oxford Language Dictionary actually defines the phrase on the fly. And then it does also get defined by some other resources here. From Wikipedia of all things, where it is meant to be used in a phrase that means hurriedly or in a quick and improvised manner. So I think we got the definition pretty well spot on in terms of the idiom and we would know what somebody means when they use that idiom and we would use it in a similar fashion. Right. And then what did your research say about the origin? So, according to Wikipedia, there's some different things on there, but the thing that seems most agreed upon is that it does have the roots in aviation. So where pilots didn't rely on instruments or maps, electronic maps as it were, that they would have to make decisions about the course and altitude quickly based on what they could see, so they would do that on the fly and that they would make those decisions based on what their surroundings indicated to them in terms of the current situation. So that they could fly the aircraft safely. The first option that comes up for me actually says it's from baseball in the 1800s. Did you find that one? That is the other main one that did come up during my research. OK. And that means that The ball was caught before touching the ground. Right, -- so -- make sense fly ball, catch the fly ball. Correct, yep, so basically that the ball was on the fly and the person had to do something in a quick fashion with a lot of motion in order to catch the ball before touching the ground. I don't really know which one I would go with because those are like completely different etymologies. I could believe either one, but I feel a little bit more sympathetic to the aviation one, but I think that's maybe because that's what I thought of originally. Yeah, but. If this is accurate, it says in 1856, this was a phrase. There was not aviation right back then. So it would have to be the baseball one first. That could be. I don't know. 1856 is the the exact date given here. I'm also a little sympathetic probably because we just showed our kids Sam Lott for the first time, and I have great memories of the movie, and it's all about baseball and boys coming of age and all that. So, Uh, it was an experience teaching it to our kids, but now, I think I'm more sympathetic to the baseball option. Indeed, well, I guess we need to check Ngram viewer and see when exactly on the fly became a phrase. Oh yeah, good idea. I do that with my phone. So not a lot of usage at all, actually, and the first Real spike in usage is 1913. So, that's what's in the books from on the fly. And when did aviation take? Take off, fights. So the Wright brothers would have done that in 1903 in Kitty Hawk, North Carolina. So, and Graham Viewer actually indicates that it may be related to aviation if it was really only used in written media starting in 1913. OK. So we may not have the answer, but there are some. Interesting, different theories I guess on where on the fly came from. And it's basically aviation or baseball. And I don't know if you can get much different than that, but nonetheless, it is pretty clear the definition as it is used in the modern lexicon in such a way to do something in a hurried fashion while you're in motion. Do you think that it's the same as like the idiom weaning it? Well, you must be reading the same article that I was because that one is one that I guess the submitter of that question was thinking that that was related to aviation, but it's not. No, it's to theater, right? Right, so if you're winging it, you're doing something without a lot of preparation. And therefore, you are actually relying on somebody in the wings. On the side stage, as it were, to give you the prompts and lines in order to perform. Yeah, there you go. And then you're winging it because you don't have the preparation and you're relying on that other person in the wings. So similar idea. I guess on the fly would probably mean you're doing it, right? Whether you're catching the ball yourself or you're flying the airplane. You have to make these split second decisions, where we need it, you're dependent on somebody else. Yeah, I think that's a good distinction. So thank you to our listener who submitted that request for the etymology on the phrase. On the fly. It's a difficult phrase to say on the fly when you're describing it as a phrase. Yeah. Those F's. I was more referring to the multiple ons, we did the etymology on on the fly. Yeah. So Our topic for today is something that Probably most of us, not all of us in the United States have experienced, and I don't think other people experience this elsewhere in the world. So for our international listeners, you'll get a little bit of an insight into the craziness of the United States, less Arizona. Oh, I know what you're gonna talk about. -- Daylight -- savings. So we had daylight savings. Fall back in the fall when we were podcasting, but I guess it didn't come up in conversation or part of what we were talking about at that -- particular time because -- I hate it and you love it and you make our agenda. Well, sometimes we make the agenda on the fly, but most, most times, yes, it's me coming up with a particular outline of the episode and you are correct. I don't really mind the fallback aspect of it, and I do mind the spring ahead, whereas perhaps you have the opposite experience, but just to explain a little bit what we're talking about in the United States, and I think all the states less Arizona, maybe Alaska doesn't do it, I'm not entirely sure. But basically, we change the time of the day. Two times each year, one time where we fall back and the time goes from 3 a.m. to 2 a.m. so you essentially add an extra hour and then the other time which we just experienced the spring ahead where it will immediately go from 1-59 a.m. to 3 a.m. and you lose that hour. Mhm. Now, I guess the history on this is that this was done for the farmers so that they could have standardized light for doing all their outside work and somehow I guess maybe the trains are related to this a little bit since the trains will run on a certain schedule and the farmers need to take the trains. I'm not entirely certain. We also have electricity now, so the fact that it gets dark out is not very prohibitive to Any particular outdoor activity nowadays, and I think the farmers do just fine, probably farming 24 hours a day in some cases for some of these industrial type farms. OK, well, but to play devil's advocate, because I do not mind this one we just had where we lose the hour. I hate, and we can explain why you and I both hate opposites in a bit. But I screenshotted this, I saw from AccuWeather. Um, on Sunday when everything changed. Because it um explained why we still do it. Cause you're right, people are like, we have electricity now. We don't need it any longer, but in the summer, if we didn't spring ahead, Chicago would get the sunrise at 4-15 a.m. in the summer. That is so early. Can you imagine getting the sun shining in your bedroom at 4 a.m.? That's why you would spring ahead and then just stay on spring ahead time. So I do think that daylight savings time is a good thing, but that we should just stay on daylight savings time and never go back to standard time. So we sprung ahead in your ideal world, we would not touch the clocks again. Correct. OK. In the summer, Chicago's sun will rise at 5 a.m. 5 or 5-30, yeah, exactly. OK. The other thing that I think would be ideal to do this at the same time when you're just committing to daily savings time or the less ideal standard time in my opinion, would be to change the United States to only have 3 time zones. Yeah, because time zones are difficult because some of them don't even go by state. Some cut straight through states. So then if you're driving through a state, Like Florida has 2 time zones, and we've gone to Florida before and I've messed that up because I wasn't sure what time zone we're in. So, I'd be more on board of that, maybe, but maybe not, cause then you're still having multiple state time zones. Yeah, I think you would have to potentially still cut through some states. I don't know if there would be a clear dividing line just by state lines, especially with just how some of the states don't fit very well together, right? There's some that Extend much further east and west than others do. And that would just cause some confusion there, but in the business world, right, with the highly communicative nature of technology and the global commerce that exists, there really is not much of time zones anyway because if you're working for a company that's in California on the East Coast, you're gonna follow that California time or vice versa. And actually having a smaller set of time zones makes that particular divergence less severe. Right. Well, that worked really well for us when we were dating. I was on the West Coast and you were on the east coast, but you were working for a West Coast company, and so you were on their time zone, and that worked out well, because you would be up later and you're, you'd get off work later, and so we could talk on the phone or whatnot. Right? And that's probably a good segue into perhaps why we have different experiences with spring ahead or fall back because in general, I will be more of a night person and not so much of a morning person, whereas you will have the opposite experience and more associate with the morning person and not as much as the night person and I think that's indicative of also how we experience. The fall back where I personally enjoy getting the extra quote unquote hour of sleep and basically could essentially stay up one hour later and then still sort of get up at the same time because I've got the same amount of sleep. Whereas the spring ahead is the exact opposite of that. I actually will try to go to bed an hour early so that I get the same amount of sleep. I don't know. I don't, that doesn't make sense to me at all. On Sunday, when it happened, you woke up, you got the same amount of time, slept. And You just didn't have an extra hour in the morning to hang around. Which is a fair point. I actually didn't really experience the spring ahead until Monday because basically I slept in for an hour on Sunday past what I normally would. So I didn't really feel the effect that particular day, but I did the following day on Monday. So, this is the first year I ever experienced spring ahead as a difficulty because some of our children are getting to that pre-teen adolescent age, and they're sleeping more. So it was harder to wake them up the last two days because they do want to sleep longer. So I do see that, so maybe they're gonna take after you in that way. But when they were babies, especially, our kids don't sleep well, and they would wake up when it was fall back, so you get quote unquote extra hour of sleep. They wouldn't, they don't read clocks, they don't know what time it is. So, if they normally wake up at 6 a.m. they are waking up at 5 a.m. And then I'm trying to keep them awake till, I don't know, 7 p.m. but their body's telling them it's 8 p.m. so then they're whiny and fussy. But we still have all our evening activities. So that's where the frustration comes from me for fallback. is when it's fall back, you get their quote unquote extra hour of sleep. But then if you have an activity that ends at 8 p.m., Your body thinks it's 9 p.m. and anyone who knows me knows I'm in sleep at 9 p.m. Like, I do not like staying up late. So, that was frustrating to me. It was just a very long day then, for especially when the kids were little, they'd wake up early and the day just dragged on. Precisely, and that is the difference because if I was given the choice on either having to stay up one hour later or going to bed at regular time and then getting up one hour earlier, I will always 99.99% of the time, choose to stay up one hour later. And I, I'm sympathetic to that because I cannot stay up late, but my brain is awake. In the morning, always. The second I wake up, I'm wide awake. And so if I try to put myself empathetically in your position of thinking like, well, your brain's awake, no matter what at night. I try to understand that, but I don't experience that at all. My brain shuts off. I can feel it like slow, turn down the dial as the evening goes on and then it's done. But then the second my eyes open in the morning. I can have a full conversation and I'm fine, which we still need to have a podcast in the morning to prove that. We talked about that a long time ago, remember? There was a podcast that was super sleepy, and I was like, I need a morning podcast to show how awake I can be and sleepy you can be. That's true. We'll have to perhaps attempt that sometime soon. And just figure out how to do that because I think our schedules are more conducive to doing them at night, but nonetheless, we can try to do that for one, maybe it'll work out and then it will be our new routine. Maybe, but you're right, it does make more sense to put the kids to sleep and then spend this time doing the talking. Precisely. The other thing of note that comes to my mind when dealing with time changes, specifically daylight savings time is just how much of an impact it does have to my routine, whereas in some of my early career, I would travel and jump 3 time zones and then basically have a 3 hour time difference or even sometimes travel internationally and be off by Nearly 12 hours in some cases and just deal with that. So I don't know if the difference is because my routine is just completely different. So therefore, I can deal with the time change adequately. Maybe I was younger at that time or something. I'm not sure, but I think the singular thing that I would be able to identify is that during the daylight savings time, both fall back and spring ahead is that I'm In the same regular routine and therefore is more of an impact to my sleep schedule. OK, I could see that. Yeah. There was a time that, yeah, you were definitely jumping around a lot and that was hard. Even when we went a couple time zones away recently, I don't know if it's just our age or like you said, we're just more in a routine now. It was hard to keep up with that time zone change. Yeah, I was also less strict with converting to the time zone because it was more of a vacation, because one of the easiest ways for me to align to a new time zone. is just by the meal time, so basically just don't eat until the following day. And then you can reset your clock in that fashion. So, I did not particularly employ that strategy of resetting my diet on that particular trip because it was more vacation and therefore was not really. Taking that much concern into the times that I ate. OK. Now, one correction from earlier in the episode, it is only parts of Arizona that do not observe daylight savings time and then it's actually Hawaii. So I said Alaska, it was one of the non-contiguous states but got the wrong one. Hawaii does not observe daylight savings time. -- What -- part of Arizona does? I think that the Indian lands will observe it. Oh, OK. So, yeah, that makes sense that they have the sovereignty to choose. Right, I guess we better fact check that real quick. OK. All I know is that I have a sibling that lives there. And so, and I have other siblings that live on the west coast, and so it's a constant game in my head. Of what time zone are they the same or are they different? Because California and Arizona are the same half the year. And then Arizona is an hour ahead. In the winter. That is true, and that is why some of the parts of Arizona do observe daylight savings time is because they are part of the Navajo Nation, which Extends into Arizona, Utah and New Mexico. So basically because Utah and New Mexico observe daylight savings time, that part of the Navajo Nation that extends into Arizona does as well so that they can be on coordinated times. Oh, OK. That's really interesting and that definitely makes sense. But the Grand Canyon, can you tell me this then, because maybe I'm just my geography. The Grand Canyon, what time zone is that? That would not. Is there daylight saving time, cause I feel like that'd be pretty similar close. Region to the Navajo Nation, right? So, The Grand Canyon Village and I guess all the surrounding areas would be in Mountain Standard Time. Grand Canyon National Park in its entirety stays on mountain time year round because it's in Arizona and it is not part of the previously stated Navajo Nation. OK. Now there is an interesting subset within the Navajo Nation, the Hopi do not observe daylight savings time. So that small section that is within the Navajo Nation does not observe it, so they would stay with the rest of Arizona. Interesting. OK, so is that what I'm like, if you Google it, there is a little block southwest, inside the Navajo Nation, and that would be the part that does stay with Arizona. Right? So I guess if you drive through that area at 2 a.m. on daylight savings time night, you could be in a lot of different times at that trip because you'd be changing time zones and times. Or not changing times because some places don't observe daily savings time. So I think that just proves the point that we should either just stick with daylight savings time or get rid of it all in its entirety and fix these weird time zone things that exist and just make it more standard. Right, I'm not opposed to that. I lean towards your opinion more just cause it's disruptive. I don't like our lives being disrupted. But I'm open to it either way. I don't necessarily have a strong hatred for it or not. Well, that is true. It is disruptive. I think some statistics that I've read about it actually say that the amount of car crashes and vehicular incidents and things of that nature actually increase both the spring ahead and the fallback. There's less worker productivity, especially on the spring ahead type of side of things. So there are definitively. Things that do disrupt people's routine when it comes to daylight savings or standard time. So we know about the US obviously, because that's where we're from. But do other countries, even just like right north of us in Canada or larger countries like Russia, do they sell uh observe daylight savings time? celebrate? Do they have a festival? I don't know. Do they? I don't know. That's why I'm asking you. I thought you did the research on this, and this was gonna be like a clever setup that you had the answer to. No, we're just doing it on the fly. So, according to a quick Google search, there are a variety of other countries that do have some form of daily savings time. So there is France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Switzerland. There's a bunch that do it in the Eastern European summertime, so countries like Bulgaria and Lithuania. Ireland has one. Uh, there's a whole bunch of islands that do it, uh, so like the Canary Islands and the Faroe Islands. Egypt, interestingly enough, is the only African country that observes any sort of delight savings time. Uh, Paraguay and some locations within Mexico, but The country as a whole does not. But isn't there something to say about all those countries you listed have a strong connection to Western culture? That does seem to hold true. So there you have it. Let's see, so who are we? -- It's probably because I don't mind I think we -- invented it, right? -- The daily savings was invented by the -- AI. I'm just saying, because ask me again in November when it changes and I'll hate it, just like you have a hatred for it right now. Uh, my, my heart just says, who are we? How are you with all these other countries? If they all agree on this as a good option. So I guess the very first. piece of this and maybe. We can do some more research on this, but in 1895, there was a New Zealander. That proposed shifting clocks to make the most of the daylight during summertime. And there were some things that were proposed in Britain, and then I looks like 1918 was like the first countrywide. Enactment of daylight savings time in the United States. OK, well, I mean, New Zealand makes sense because the farther away you are from the equator, right, you're gonna be affected more by the, the sun. Like, I had the privilege to be in a Russia for a while in college. And in the summertime, I was there, and it would be like 2 a.m. and it was, I mean, the sun was setting, but it wasn't ever dark. Like, it was just insane to be out so late at night, and it wasn't dark. And again, the opposite, right in the winter, it gets dark really soon. So the farther away you are from the equator, Your days are longer or shorter. That's true. And I guess the US was not actually the first, so upon a little bit more research, Germany and Austria as part of World War One efforts in 1916 enacted daylight savings time again as sort of the wartime effort to quote unquote conserve energy. And then there were certain areas of Canada, specifically the ports in Ontario and on the eastern seaboard. That would do this to again, save daylight back in 1908 was the first like observed sort of thing as far as the procedural governments go. OK, and this probably sounds super naive, but who chooses the time? Like, if we need to talk about this another time, that's fine. I don't know if we have time now, but who Decides what time it is, like how far back does that go and who gets to say it is 12 p.m.? In the US, whoever owns the trains in the train stations, yes, that's how the time zones got created in the US, OK, so that all the trains would run on time. OK. So there you have it, some interesting tidbits about daylight savings time and maybe some opinions that you can empathize with or not as much, but if you did enjoy this episode, like and share it. So, from your friends at I Hate Talking, until next time, remember, it is only through talking that we begin the journey to understanding.