I Hate Talking

Parallel Play - Part 1

Stephadam Season 2025 Episode 64

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 The hosts discuss the concept of "parallel play," ultimately choosing it over other potential topics like "predictive programming" or "apse" for this episode.

Definition and Origins:

  • Parallel play originally describes a stage in child development where children play side by side without direct interaction, as a precursor to cooperative play.
  • The term is now also applied to adults: it refers to people engaging in separate activities in the same physical space, such as one reading while the other watches TV, without direct interaction.

Hosts’ Perspectives:

  • One host dislikes parallel play as an adult, finding it awkward and distracting—preferring either to be alone or to engage directly with others. The uncertainty about whether to interact makes it hard to focus on their own activity.
  • The other host enjoys parallel play, appreciating the shared presence and sense of companionship it offers, even without direct interaction. They see value in simply being together in the same space.

Technology and Presence:

  • The conversation highlights how technology (like earbuds or books) can make someone less "present" in a shared space, leading to missed cues for interaction and potential frustration.
  • Interruptions, especially for parents, can disrupt the "flow state" and make solo activities difficult, reinforcing the desire for either full solitude or direct interaction.

Parallel Play in Adult Relationships:

  • Parallel play can offer comfort, reduce social pressure, and support individual interests while maintaining a sense of connection.
  • It can be especially beneficial for those who find constant socializing draining (often introverts), as it combines personal space with shared presence.

Examples and Boundaries:

  • Activities like editing a podcast together, reading while a partner watches TV, or doing separate hobbies in the same room are cited as examples.
  • Watching a TV show or attending a concert together can blur the lines: if there’s little interaction, it fits parallel play; if there’s shared reaction or conversation, it becomes more interactive.
  • The hosts debate the physical boundaries of parallel play, suggesting it requires being within the same room or close proximity (about 20 feet), though the benefit is subjective.

Personality Differences:

  • The hosts acknowledge their differing needs: one values direct, interactive engagement, while the other finds comfort in shared presence without constant interaction.
  • They note that these differences reflect broader personality traits and needs for connection, solitude, or companionship, and that understanding these can strengthen relationships.

Key Takeaways:

  • Parallel play in adulthood is about being together without the pressure to interact, offering a balance between connection and autonomy.
  • Its value depends on individual preferences and personality types—some find it comforting, others find it pointless or uncomfortable.
  • Recognizing and respecting these differences can enhance mutual understanding in relationships.

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Any views expressed on this podcast are those solely of the hosts and is for entertainment purposes only. None of the content is medical advice or financial advice.

Special thanks to Tim Wright aka CoLD SToRAGE for his permission to use the song Operatique.

I Hate Talking:

Welcome to episode 64 of I Hate Talking. Hi everyone. So I guess we have some different words or phrases that perhaps we can do for this episode. We have two different choices of double P phrases. OK. Parallel play. Or predictive programming or we could do something completely different. I can't even think of one. I was trying to think of like passive, whatever, but OK. -- So I get to choose from those -- two? I suppose so, or we could do apps because apparently there's a word that we didn't do. So But I don't know if that's very relevant to some of the things we've been talking about in the past. I don't know. Let's do parallel play play. All right, we'll do parallel play then. That is, I think maybe one that I have a little bit better opportunity to talk off the top of my head because I do think that predictive programming may take a little bit of additional research -- outside of our normal conversation during the -- podcast. Are you thinking like AI stuff for predictive programming. No, that is not what predictive programming means. OK, well, -- I'll stay tuned for next -- time. Or the time after that since we don't really have a very well-defined schedule. Sounds good. So parallel play. I think that typically was used when it first came about as the description of child development. So essentially when a child will play with things in the company of other children and Just do things sort of alongside one another. So it's, I guess the step before there's sort of the cooperative play where they are maybe exchanging toys or interacting with one another in a way that would be more cooperative rather than just individual in the same place. OK. And then I think it has also recently become more frequently used in terms of how adults may interact with one another, where they are doing a hobby or could be even quote unquote work. That is adjacent to one another in the same physical space, but lacks any sort of direct interaction. So, I hate parawell play. Do you wanna know why? I suppose so, because I think I do enjoy it. I don't enjoy it at all because, and here's my thought process on it. I understand what you're saying about the children and all the studies and child psychology and such, but as an adult, myself, I don't enjoy quote unquote peril play because If I'm in the room with someone doing something and they're doing a different activity, I'm like, there's this weirdness of like, do I have to talk or like can I put my earbuds in and zone out, and then you say something and then I'm like, oh, wait, what? So I can't focus on what I'm doing because I'm always waiting to see an interaction from that individual. If I'm doing something by myself, I'd rather just be alone, so I don't have to look around for interactions with other people. Or if I'm with other people, I want to be interacting with them, having conversations and back and forth, versus like just waiting to see like, Are we gonna talk? Are you gonna say something? And it's always like up in the air, you don't know. So that's interesting. So you have to make a conscious effort in order to monitor for bids on interactions? See, I don't think I have to do that. Like, I will, perhaps if it's a situation where I need to pay special attention to social cues and a variety of things, I will have a heightened sense of awareness about these things. But my like default state is to always be aware of my surroundings and aware of what other people are doing, at least in some degree. Again, there's gonna be various levels of my awareness, but it's always on, at least at the low setting. But don't you agree that In our relationship, I'll have my earbuds in, maybe I'm doing the dishes, and I put my earbuds in, and I'm uh listening to a story, and then you try to get my attention. And if I'm listening to my story, then you get like frustrated that, like, I'm not paying attention to you quick enough. Well, perhaps we've gotten to our big takeaway for the episode very early on in the episode is that when you are interacting with technology, it makes it so you are no longer present in the situation that you are physically dwelling in. -- You -- mean me or the you as a whole? Yes, I just am talking about humanity in general, when you are interacting with technology and it consumes the majority of your attention, whether that is audio or visual or both, that then you are no longer quote unquote present. OK, I can see that. But also, even for me, it's like books or whatnot. Like if I sit down to read a book, and then you're like, hey, staffs blah blah blah. I'm like, huh? So I have to put down my book and look up at you. And then we interact, and then I put the book, you know, start reading again. And also, especially as a mom, uh, the past decade plus, it's hard because the kids constantly coming up to me and then I have to put my book down and look at them, and listen, and then pick up where I left off. And if I want to read a book, I just wanna be left alone to read a whole chapter without interruption. Yeah, I suppose that's true, and I do have the desire for similar things, especially in what some would describe as a flow state where you're in a very deep, thoughtful process of accomplishing a task or producing something creatively or whatever the case may be, or working on a problem, as it were. And when you do achieve that sense of flow within your work process or creative process that you would not want interruptions. So, perhaps I will find parallel play more appropriate for situations where it is not necessarily a flow state thing. So, for example, one of the things that. I would categorize as a parallel play candidate would be editing our podcast, but you don't really like to do that together, I guess. No, well, because if I do it, you redo it anyways. There's a behind the scenes of how the podcast gets made. So Adam often does it because I don't have a desire to get my work redone. And when you want me to sit here and watch you do it, I end up falling asleep because I'm just listening to us talk, and we just spoke, so it's like replaying what I just heard. And like a rerun of an episode kind of thing. And um yeah, I think because you know exactly what you're looking for, I don't think my input is valued, and so I just sit there and fall asleep. That's true. I just made a mental note to remove your ah at minute mark 853. There you go. Did you make the mental note that I said I, you don't value my input? I do value your input and on the episodes that I re-edited, I only made one change to 2 episodes and that was it out of all the ones that you edited. The rest were fine. Not sure about that. But OK. So how would that bring you enjoyment though, if I sit here watching you work? Well, there still could be the potential for interaction. So perhaps if there's something that I'm not quite sure if it should stay in or stay out or whatever the case may be, or there's a particular edit that. Maybe he needs a second listen. Then you could have some interaction there. But I think the reason that I enjoy it and probably most people that do enjoy it would cite the reason for enjoying it is that you are experiencing something in the same space, so there is some form of companionship or stability or relationship, even though you're not necessarily doing the exact same thing and working on something. Together per se. But that there is, I think companionship would be probably a good word to use. I'm trying to think back to before I was a stay at home mom. What I felt about that. Because I get companionship literally 24 hours a day. So, if you consider like somebody doing something alongside me, I am not in lack of that. I'm in lack of using the bathroom for 3 minutes alone or going, yeah, 3 minutes without someone talking to me or someone interacting with me. So, I don't remember what I felt like before I had all these people constantly buying for my attention. That's true. I suppose that if there's additional seeking for your attention that you may not be apt to. Entertain that, that you may want to do either something completely alone, right? Like you said, read your book or listen to an audiobook, or have something that is directly interactive. Mhm. So, which would you pick out of those two? Or it depends on your mood and previous experience of the day. Yeah, I mean, it definitely depends. If I only could hypothetically pick one, it would be the direct interaction always, because I do like being around people. But typically it would be more of a day to day, what my interactions have been like. But I think going back to it, it's the whole, I'm always waiting, I guess, for someone to interact with me. If imperil play, so I can't fully enjoy what I'm doing. Unless I'm completely alone, because I'm waiting for that interaction. That's true. But you also in some form, also seek that type of interaction as. A valuable thing in your own fulfillment. True. Yeah, on a typical day, yeah, definitely. So, According to some of the research that we are doing live on this episode. There's some things that describe parallel play in adults, and I'll just read some of these particular things, is that parallel play in adults involves being together in the same spaces while each person focuses on their own independent activity, like reading while a partner watches TV or doing separate hobbies side by side. So I think that's a pretty. Concise definition that sort of summarizes how we've been defining the word parallel play as it relates to adults, and then it goes on, this quote unquote alone time can strengthen relationships by combining personal space with shared presence, offering comfort, reducing social pressure and supporting individual interests. It is especially beneficial for those who find constant social interaction draining and can help foster a sense of connection, autonomy and relaxation. So what's the benefit from doing that versus being in a different room? Well, if you're in a different room, then you are no longer in a shared presence. So, for example, if you're in a different room, you might as well be in a different building or a different state because you're not really being seen or sharing in any type of physical. Proximity. Do you think it was paro play when we were long distance and we used to watch TV shows together? So that's an interesting thing because TV shows. Maybe fit within this technology thing that we've been talking about where perhaps you're Semi-present. So even though you are doing the exact same thing, you're still being entertained and you're not necessarily Talking about it, maybe after the fact you would or. During, but that can also be detrimental to the viewing experience, especially depending on your particular appetite for. Focusing on the show or. Whatever you're watching versus. Quote unquote interrupting the show. But I think that does. Sort of fit within parallel play, because again, you're not directly interacting with one another, but you are. Doing a hobby, and the hobby is just the exact same thing. So it's sort of in the middle, I think because it's the exact same thing that you're partaking in, but it is still sort of separate because you're not having any opportunity for direct interaction. So if I had to choose between it being in the parallel play category or not, I probably actually would put it in the parallel play category because of that. So what about concerts then? Is that parallel play? So concerts probably, I guess any form of entertainment, a comedy show, a concert, a movie, watching a TV show at home. Is going to be again the same hobby or same experience, but if there's not a lot of interaction. That it probably falls more within the category of parallel play. But I would say a concert maybe is a little bit more directly interactive than just watching a TV show or a movie because you still could. Have more opportunities to interact with one another and converse about. Music or the show or whatever's happening. So, that's my thought on that. OK. Yeah, because we go to concerts occasionally. It's definitely more your theme. I go because you enjoy it and I like to be with you. Uh, I, I would never go to one by myself, nor would I necessarily choose to do it. But I do love comedy shows, but for me, and it's probably just a different personality type. Because the difference, yes, I can listen to a comedian on YouTube or whatnot on Netflix. But being there and listening to other people laugh. Makes me laugh too. So, it's probably the same if you're a music buff, listening to people, headband or whatever, I would help you do that also. That's true. And that's not parallel play, right? Because you're interacting and changing your environment or changing your reactions based on other people. I'm laughing cause someone else is laughing. That's not parallel play, that's um more interactive, right? Yeah, but it's not a social interaction. I think that's what the definition of parallel play is getting at is that you can have a shared experience even or separate experiences in the same physical proximity, but there's no quote unquote social interaction that is necessitated. OK. Because I think that's what's important nuance in the definition that I read earlier, is that people that do enjoy parallel play is because there is reduced social pressure, because perhaps maybe it's a difference between introverts and extroverts from way back when and probably our single digit episodes. Maybe somebody that's an introvert would find parallel play more beneficial because Again, there's not that quote unquote constant social interaction. I guess I'm having a hard time understanding what the benefit is of someone else being in that room is. Because you don't personally experience -- the benefit -- or value. I don't see any. I can't feel any kind of benefit at all from it. So, I empathize with the definition when it says that it combines personal space with shared presence. So because you are physically there, your companionship and presence is felt, but the social interaction that perhaps I I do enjoy to some extent, but not as my primary source of enjoyment. is not called upon to be completely social and interactive. How close do you have to be to have your presence physically felt? Because like our house is an open concept. Kitchen, dining room, living room are all together. If I'm reading at the kitchen table, and you're on the couch in the living room. Which is what, like 20 ft away, is that perro play? Yeah, I would say so. What if I'm -- 10 ft more at the kitchen -- cooking? No, that's getting close to the outside boundary, I believe. So in your concept, payroll play has to be within 20 ft of each other? That sounds like a good rule. OK, see, I don't get, like, for me, the only benefit would be like if we were on the couch together, cuddling, or like I'm relaying on your shoulder or Our legs are touching or something like that, and I see benefit, and yeah, it's both free together. But if I'm 15 ft away, And we're not interacting. I might as well be in. The other room. For you. Yes. True, I guess another takeaway is that yet again, we've uncovered some things that make us different and perhaps those differences are things that make us more strong as a couple because we do have different interests and likes and values and sources of which we derive how we experience the world together. You don't sound very sure. Well, I just don't. I'm not convinced peril play is a good thing. I even try to like Us the concept of my children. Three of them like full constant attention, touching, like if we're on the couch, they want me rubbing their back, or rubbing their feet, or talking to them or whatnot. And then I have one that even from a teeny tiny baby, didn't want that strong constant interaction. But he also doesn't even want you in the room. Like, when he wants his alone time, it is obvious that he wants to be alone, his own room, no one else there. So I think I have a hard time processing parallel play like you're talking about. It's either you're together and you're interacting, or you're away from each other. So I get what you're saying, but I don't think, I don't see the benefit in it. So there are some things that do describe parallel play as a negative thing, though most of what I've been reading indicates that parallel play is a good thing because of reading bias. No, I'm just asking AI. AI is not biased at all. I'll, I'll ask my AI. You ask your AI while I talk about what my AI said. So, there are some risks associated with parallel play if it replaces direct interaction. So if you are using parallel play and just doing your own thing in the same physical space forever and ever, then that will lead to superficiality of a relationship or true isolation because there is the lack of direct interaction and social. Things that you can discuss and do together. So that is the warning that my AI gives and I. Do you agree with that? And then I think the thing that you mentioned on the distance. It's not necessarily an exact distance in terms of the number of feet away, but I think it is has something to do with the proximity where you can at least be able to see one another because obviously, if you can't see one another, then the physical presence can't really be felt. And that I think there also needs to be the opportunity that if there is one person that wants to interact with the other person directly, that It's not like they have to walk over, but that they could do that from their existing location. So it sounds like so far you haven't found anything bad about parallel play. No, I did. I'm just reading this. So, I know the very first thing that comes up is, yes, cause I googled is per will play good. And then the very first thing actually that popped up, that was my just generic Google sent, and AI instantly said, whilepa will playing children, playing side by side without direct interaction is a typical development, it can be a sign of autism if it persists. So my uh AI instantly goes to that and explaining why. Correct, but that's from the childhood development perspective, not this. co-opted, co-opted is probably too strong a word, but this reused phrase to describe how adults interact, because I don't think that when an adult uses parallel play to describe the relationship that they're talking exactly about childhood development stages. So there is a difference there between parallel play, the phrase being used in childhood development versus what we're talking about as adults. Right. The next thing that comes up in mind after that is from very wellmind.com. And it says, is pararoll play hurting or helping your relationship? So just very quickly, like, what points they give for positives, parallel play can look like reading a different book, lifting weights, doing different chores in the same room. Being on your respective phones, scrolling together, folding laundry while your partner plays with the child. And they say there's benefits, it helps practice object permanence, that is trusting that your partner exists and will still be there for you and love you even when you're not together. So that's their benefits, drawbacks, and they said there's often, you know, too much of a good thing, is their quote. You might get complacent and no longer engage, or have a schedule interactive activities together. It's important that the things you do together are things that you both choose, agree to do and enjoy. Doing things together, just for the sake of doing things together, out of duty and obligation may result in resentment instead of closeness and connection. So that would be the argument to do payroll play, right? So that way. You're not resenting the other person for making you do what they want. No, I heard two things in there that can make parallel play a bad thing. And it was one of the things that I already alluded to with the fact that if you exclusively do parallel play, then that is, as your article said, too much of a good thing, where then that becomes complacent and you are no longer actually interacting with one another and having an established relationship. And then the second thing that it described was The either routine or the duty to do this that. It should actually be hobbies that when you are doing parallel play that it's something that you both enjoy. It's not that one person's working and the other person is enjoying their hobby or vice versa. So, I think that Those are not necessarily in direct opposition to parallel play, but just. Observations on how parallel play can go wrong. So you still seem unconvinced. Yeah, I mean it's just a personality trait. Y'all can let us know if you feel strongly one way or another. I still don't see much of a benefit in parallel play. But you're open to considering it since I see a benefit in it. -- More -- than what we do already. What do we do already? We spend tons of time in the same room. Like when they were talking about. You do, in the article I just read, you're doing the laundry and your partner's playing with the kid. We do that constantly. True, but I would put that more in the category of duty than. Pure hobby. I don't know. When I do the laundry and I see you playing with the kids, I'm like that's Fine, I wanna play too, but I have work to do. Right, and that's the point, it's work. It's not a hobby, so it's not necessarily parallel play, maybe be like parallel work. Playing with your kid doesn't work. But even if one party is doing work, it's not parallel play. Well, that's an example. Right, that's my point is that I don't think we do a lot of parallel play. I think we do all the time. We were both earlier on our phones doing Du lingo. Yeah, maybe I just categorize too much in life as work because I feel like that's a duty as well. Mm. It's enjoyable, but it's a task that needs to get checked off the list. So perhaps we have not arrived at any particular conclusions in this episode, but, but how would you want us to do parallel play then if you don't think we're doing it well? I think it needs to be. Perhaps things that don't take you completely out of. The Presence of one another In terms of social presence, so there still is the opportunity to. Have some form of social interaction if one or more of the parties desire that. So, the example on the technology thing, I think detracts from that availability. Yeah, but then you can't read a book. You can read a book, yeah. Not if one person's wanting to interact, they're like, what are you going to read it out loud to me? No, but then you pause the book and then you can have a social interaction because you're already in close proximity with one another. Not parallel play then. You paused your book, so I didn't get to finish reading my chapter. All I want to do is read my chapter in peace. But then you don't actually want to partake in parallel play then. No, I don't. Well, then there you go. Uh, so, Yeah, I don't know. Maybe it comes down to in our personal lives, we're just over committed. Because If I have 20 minutes, I might like. sneak away, tell you like you have the kids for a while, and I can go get this done. Or go read a little bit or whatever. And I very much value that time. And it's really frustrating when it gets interrupted, we do not have spare time. So I very much value those few minutes that we carve out to do stuff. So that's probably just on us that we overcommit ourselves. And don't have enough time. To sit in the same room doing an activity and stop occasionally and restart. The activity. Does that make sense? That's true, so we don't have enough time to do our own hobbies to begin with. So if we try to and then it gets interrupted, then it's even more frustrating. That very well could be. So again, I don't think we've reached any conclusions, but maybe we will continue this conversation either offline or online. But if you have any particular things that you have concluded on, do let us know by sending us an email, or text or leaving a comment. And we would certainly love to hear your perspective on parallel play and the benefits or the reasons not to do that. Maybe we'll tackle this as a part two or maybe not. So, from your friends at I hate Talking, until next time, remember, it is only through talking that we begin the journey to understanding.