Parallel Play - Part 2

 Episode 65 of "I Hate Talking" centers on the word "cogitate" and continues the discussion about parallel play.

• The hosts introduce and explore the word "cogitate," which means to think deeply about something, tracing its Latin roots and comparing it with "meditate." They note that while both words involve deep thought, "cogitate" implies active, problem-focused thinking, whereas "meditate" often connotes relaxation or contemplation without a specific goal.
• The hosts discuss how "meditate" is more commonly used in modern English, while "cogitate" is rare and might be misunderstood if used in conversation. They highlight the nuanced differences between these terms, rooted in their Latin origins, and suggest that "cogitate" might be a more precise word in some contexts.
• They reference their experiences with meditation apps and how some people (including their children) find guided meditation challenging because it encourages specific thoughts rather than mental relaxation—highlighting the difference between the two concepts.
• The conversation shifts to biblical usage, examining whether scriptural references to "meditate" might be closer in meaning to "cogitate," especially in passages encouraging focused reflection. They look at Greek and Hebrew roots and note that biblical "meditation" often means to ponder or contemplate deeply.

• Returning to parallel play, the hosts reflect on their ongoing debate. One host, despite being sick, shares two conclusions after "cogitating" on the topic:
  • Strict parallel play means being in the same space but doing completely separate activities, with no interaction—even brief conversation breaks the definition.
  • Time-bounded parallel play might suit both their needs better: agreeing to a set period to do separate activities together, after which they can interact or move on. This structure could help balance their differing preferences.
• The co-host acknowledges being a people pleaser, which makes relaxing during parallel play difficult, as she feels responsible for others' comfort and happiness.

Key themes:

• The subtle but important distinction between "cogitate" and "meditate."
• The challenges of practicing parallel play as adults, especially when personalities and expectations differ.
• The value of clear definitions and boundaries—both for language and for shared activities like parallel play.

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Any views expressed on this podcast are those solely of the hosts and is for entertainment purposes only. None of the content is medical advice or financial advice.

Special thanks to Tim Wright aka CoLD SToRAGE for his permission to use the song Operatique.

Transcript

0:29

Welcome to episode 65 of I Hate Talking. Hi everyone. So I guess we'll continue on our parallel play topic, but before we do that, we always have our word or phrase of the episode. And today's word or phrase is the word cogitate. Cogitate. Cogitate. OK. So Any guesses on what that means? I mean, it makes me think of cognizant or like cognition, so something about the brain. Yep, so something to do with thinking. So, cogitate is a verb, and according to our favorite Oxford language dictionary, it defines the word cogitate as thinking deeply about something. OK. In other words, to meditate or reflect. Oh, OK. And it's from the Latin, so it seems like most of other words that we do are from the Greek, but this one actually comes from the Latin and it is from two Latin roots, co, which means together, and Agata, which means to turn over or consider. So then that cognition, same thing with the thinking. Becomes the Latin cogatetaire and then cogitate in the late 16th century. OK. Now it is a relatively infrequently used word. If we compare cogitate with the synonym that the Oxford Language Dictionary gave of meditate, you can see that the blue line for cogitate is nearly non-existent and very flat. And Meditate actually has a peak in the 1800s to 1850, then sort of drops off and then actually is making a comeback starting in the year 2000. So are they, I mean, they're synonyms, but are they the same word essentially means the same? Cause yeah, nowadays you hear meditate often, and like you said, the graph shows that. But if I were to say cognitate on this, I think people would give me a side eye. Yeah, perhaps I don't know. Maybe we can look up the definition of meditate, I think. At least in my mind, it's more of the cognition process, so the actual thinking with the intent to come to some conclusion or to work through a problem whereas meditate carries more of a connotation of just. Being more contemplative in general, not necessarily thinking about a specific thing or working on a particular problem. Side note, I wanna keep talking about this with our kids, especially one of them, we're working on some like resilience and some mindfulness, and this app we're using is great. It's called Legends. We can uh share a link for it. I really like it. And it's like a 5 minutes a day, just a little pep talk and a story about someone, etc. So they tell you a story and they teach you something about it, right? How to apply it to your life. The other day, it was on meditation, and they're like talking you through like a meditator would, right? Like, they play the music and they're like, take a deep breath. Picture this, you know, and they're talking you through each step. And at the end, they're like, share what you saw. And one of our kids goes, someone was like, OK, so what did you see? He goes, I couldn't see anything cause that person kept talking. I'm like, but they were telling you like, picture this. Did you picture that? He's like, no, cause they were kept talking. I was like, oh well, we'll try it again with just maybe music only. So meditation can be harder for some people because they're cognitive or they're. Is that what it would be? Cognitate, is that the word?-- Cogitate-- cogitate. Perhaps so. So the definition of meditate from the same Oxford language dictionary says to think deeply or focus one's mind for a period of time in silence and then it also does explain that meditate is often used for religious or spiritual purposes or as a method of relaxation. Which I think does differ from cogitate because cogitate is gonna be more active thinking versus meditation or to meditate where you're probably going to still think, but it's more of a relaxation, not necessarily working on a particular problem or trying to come to a certain conclusion. Now, meditate does come from the Latin as well, from the word metatari, which means measure and then Became used to mean contemplate, and that contemplation sort of is the same literal word or definition that's used in the mid 16th century meditate. So in my scenario, they actually technically weren't meditating, they were cog cognitating because she was telling them, think of this, and now think of this, right? And he was trying to meditate, where he was trying to clear his head and not think of step by step instructions, right? Am I understanding the two differences there? Yes, I think that's probably a very good differentiation between the two words. But in culture we say meditate, but really, we should actually be saying she should have said, we're gonna cognitate. So there's actually no end in cogitate. So how am I saying? You're saying cogitate. I'm thinking of like cognit. Oh, what's that word I'm thinking of cognition cognition. OK, so cog cogitate, yeah. Cogitate, yes. So it's actually interesting to note that cognition or anything with that type of thinking is a completely different Latin root. So that Latin root is cognosier and that is a literal definition given in the Latin of get to know and then that became. Cognito and cognition in the late Middle English. OK, hm, interesting. But they're both about thinking. And like deep thoughts, right? Even though it's a different word. Yes, I think the difference is. Again, going back to the root Latin for cogitate, it literally means turn over or consider. So it's basically that perhaps you already have some idea or problem that you are considering or turning over in your mind, as it were, whereas meditation or meditate, you still might be thinking deeply or carefully about something, but it. I think is more frequently used. With regards to. Just focusing in silence and relaxing is more of the intent with meditate. OK. So I think it's again a very nuanced difference, but it is a nuanced difference that goes all the way back to the Latin and persists in the English and perhaps we should do more cogitating instead of meditating. Do you think, cause I think personality wise, you're similar to the child I was speaking of, do you have a hard time meditating and would it be easier for you to cognitate? There's no end. Sorry,-- sorry y'all-- cogitate cogitate. Can I emphasize ah cogitate. No. Probably not. But so few people use this that they probably would not know any better anyway. Either way, they're gonna look at me like I'm crazy when I use this word. I think so. So to answer your question, perhaps this is a good thing to cogitate on or meditate on because perhaps I've never meditated given this nuanced difference. Perhaps I only do cogitation and actively think about something and Even if there's something that I've read that I quote unquote, meditate on after the fact or have some certain situation that I'm trying to find a solution to that it probably is not meditation in the strictest sense of the word, but is actually probably a better example of cogitation. Right? Yeah, I mean, because we've had this conversation, I think even on the pod here, stereotypically, the wife will ask the husband, what are you thinking? And he says, nothing. And she gets mad cause she doesn't believe him. But we've had that in reverse where you ask me? I'm like, I don't know. I have literally no thoughts up there. It's blank. And so when I quote unquote, meditate, I don't have a problem. I mean, I do, if there's a lot going on, but if I'm maybe alone, and I know I have 30 minutes undisturbed or something, I can quote unquote, meditate, but my mind goes blank. And I'm often refreshed afterwards and I feel energized. But, so like in scripture, when it's like meditate on these things, I have a hard time with that because if I meditate, my mind's blank. But really with scripture. Like, do we know when we're using it in scripture where those words translate to actually be like cognitate on these things instead of meditate? There's no end. Oh y'all, I'm so sorry. Cogitate. So that particular verse that I think you're thinking of is 1 Timothy chapter 4 verse 15, and in the old King James it says, quote, meditate upon these things, give thyself wholly to them that thy profiting may appear to all. So, the New Testament was primarily written in Greek and since meditation and cogitation are both Latin, I suspect that there's probably a different word and perhaps the translators from Greek picked meditate because that was more of a common word, at least as far back as the 1800s, and I would assume further back as well that We can, I guess, try to look up the Greek. I'm not a Greek scholar, but we can try and see. Do you want me to go get the Strons concordance or do we have it? It's probably in here. Does the strongs have the Greek words and definitions? Wow, I remember 20 years ago in Bible College. All right, well, let's take a look. So It's used somewhat frequently, I guess in both Old Testament and New Testament there are exactly 14 uses of the word meditate. And 6 uses of the word meditation. Now it's interesting to note that of those, there's only 2 instances of meditate in the New Testament, and 0. New Testament uses of the word meditation. So might even have to go back further to the Hebrew, I suppose. But for this episode, let's stick with just the New Testament and look at the Greek perhaps in meditate and perhaps see if we can be better Bible translators then. King James translators and see if maybe a better word would have been cogitate. I have opinions on that. We'll skip that. Well, I guess we could check the strongs for cogitate,-- but I have a feeling that-- it would be. I, I agree. I think it'll be 0. Nope, no cogitate. Oh, it, there is cognitions. Does that count? No, because that's a different Latin root word. The only one that the Strons or records is the cognitions, which comes from Daniel 7. My cognitions much trouble me. Or in other words, his thoughts. Indeed. So, according to Google on the Greek word for meditate in the New Testament is melao. Again, not a Greek scholar, so probably mispronouncing that, but it encompasses a range of meetings according to Google, including to care for, attend to carefully practice, devise, and ponder. And While that particular Greek word is the most common Greek word associated with quote unquote, meditation, it lists here that it's important to note that the concept of meditation in both Old and New Testaments has its roots in broader ideas of focused attention, contemplation and reflection. Which is a callback to the Original Latin roots as well for meditate because one of the synonyms that was used for that root Latin word was contemplate. OK. Yep. So, I think this is comforting to me or makes a lot of sense to me, because, again, like I've said, when people say meditate on this, my mind will go blank. And I know that's not what I'm supposed to do if I'm supposed to meditate on something specific. Like the Legends app we use that says like, think about your goal. Where are you? Is it raining? Is it sunny? So that's calling specific thoughts to your brain. So to me it's encouraging because I'm like, wait, I feel like I meditate wrong, but maybe I'm actually cogitating. More than meditating Yeah, there's a lot of different words that I guess shows that. Humanity is interested in human thought because ponder, contemplate, think are all very similar words, but even have different Latin roots. So they were not only derived in the English as different words with different nuances, but those nuances existed as far back as when they were used in the Latin. Hm. And then also I think we see a little bit of degradation in the English language as well because I think meditate can be used so widely that perhaps some of these other words should be used with cogitate or ponder or contemplate or reflect that maybe those have a little bit. Additional definition about them that makes it more clear, right? So if we want to bring this word back. And use it. If I'm speaking to someone and I want them to actually actively think about something, I should tell them, hey, cogitate on this, or let's cogitate on this and circle back. Precisely.-- And-- said let's meditate on this. OK, I can, I can buy into that. A little bit of use. It'll sound weird at first to people, but I think we could bring this back. Precisely. So I have been cogitating myself on parallel play, and I believe I have reached two major conclusions. OK, first, y'all, Adam has told me that he is frustrated that he hasn't persuaded me yet that parallel plays good. And also, it's kind of not fair. We've had the flu in our house all week. And I've been caring for all of our children as they each take their turn with the flu. And it's definitely hitting me. The last like 3 hours, I can feel my body just like, Closing in. And so, we talked about recording. I said, OK, we got to do it quick because I'm gonna be out for the next 2 or 3 days after this. So we're rushing this before I go to sleep and I'm sick. I want to hear what your thoughts are, but it's definitely unfair because I don't have the fight in me anymore. I've cogitated on this also, and why I don't like pararo play. So I'll do my best to bring that here, but also, My body hurts and I'm so sick. Well, I didn't know it was that bad since we're in the confined space of our studio. You're gonna get. Oh, you should have an air purifier in here or something, huh. I'll, I'll talk over this direction so that way I don't breathe on you. So, like I said, two major conclusions and maybe it's a bit of a concession or compromise because I think that in general, I do parallel play incorrectly. OK. Tell me about that. So the first of the two conclusions that I have cognitated about is one that parallel play in its strictest definition of the word is. Completely separate. So while there is the same physical space and the two people or whomever are sharing the same physical proximity, they are doing their own thing. In its entirety, whereas I described in the last episode that perhaps if there was something that came up or there was a need or some sort of interaction was desired, that then that could be done, but that actually would then break the parallel play because you are no longer exclusively doing your own thing in the same physical proximity. OK, so. I think that is still something that I enjoy having as part of a shared experience in the same physical space is that if there is something that comes to my mind, or there is something that needs to be done or discussed that you are nearby and can do that, but I think that does break the definition of parallel play. OK. And then secondly, I also did a little bit of reading additionally beyond our original research that we did prior to and during last episode. But I think it actually is a callback to, again, a very old episode with our time-bound discussions that perhaps parallel play would be better suited for both of our experiences, especially given the first point, if it had time bounds, where we said for the next 30 minutes, we're going to be in the same physical space in near proximity to one another. And do our own thing and then once that time allotment has passed, it could either be renewed or that ends the quote unquote parallel play session and then we go about our other ways of interacting with one another or departing and going to do something. Far apart from one another, whether that be yard work or kitchen work or laundry or going to any of the variety of extracurricular activities that both we and our kids participate in. OK. Yeah. OK. So, my thoughts on that, those are both interesting thoughts and helps me understand it better and agree with it better. I do think that part of my problem is I am definitely like a people pleaser. And want to make sure everyone around me is happy and Doing well and likes me. So, I can never relax, like I said before, because I'm always heightened, aware of you and whether you're gonna do any bids for my attention. So your thought on like 30 for 30 minutes, I'm gonna do this. May possibly allow me to lower my guard, so I'm not constantly watching for your bids of attention. Correct. And during that time, I would make no bids for attention, unless there was something like an emergency or something that was extremely urgent, but that for that time duration that we both agree upon, that there are no direct interactions nor even bids for interactions. Yeah, OK, so that part I buy, I can get behind that because my whole thing is I can't start a book because I'm constantly waiting for you to interrupt it. And not in a bad way, I'm not saying like, grumpy, but like, it's the truth. I can't sit and read a book because I'm constantly aware that any moment. I'm gonna lose my place in the sentence because you're gonna need me or someone else will. So, if there was that time frame, cause that's why I say like, I'm gonna go upstairs for 30 minutes. So, and I walk upstairs and then I have my 30 minutes to read. But you're saying that theoretically you can do that in the same room. I guess my question then, as a follow up, cause that makes sense. Instead of me saying, I'm going upstairs for 30 minutes, what is the difference between that? And saying, I'm rooting for 30 minutes, right here on this couch. How does that bring you more comfort that I'm there versus upstairs? So, two things. One is that if it's parallel play that you would need to be doing something that you enjoy as a hobby. parallelly to me in the same physical space. Because I don't think it's quite parallel play and we touched on this last episode as well. If somebody's working on chores or whatever the case may be, and the other person is enjoying a hobby. I don't necessarily enjoy that as much on either side of the equation if I'm the person doing the chores or the person doing the hobby because it's not true parallel play. And then secondarily to that is, again, the physical proximity. So, for whatever reason, if you're within my visual area that I can see and nearby that, that brings a greater sense of comfort and companionship. Versus being away from one another, even if it is in a different room. Now, I do also enjoy strict alone time as well, where I am not around people in the slightest and am completely alone and doing hobby reading or whatever the case may be. So, I would put those in two very separate categories. OK. Well, then, can we compromise for us? I mean, y'all out there, maybe you have a different compromise or don't need a compromise. But for us, I like physical touch, so I like when we're on the couch, even if our legs are touching slightly, sitting next to each other. Or I definitely like when your arms around me and we're on the couch, or holding hands walking the dog or anything like that. So, as you're saying, it seems like you're saying similar things as saying, I want you physically near me. Maybe not touching me, but, but there. I'm saying, I don't see a benefit unless we're physically touching. Like your hands holding me or even our knees are touching or whatnot. So, uh, could we make that as a compromise if we're peril playing, but our knees are touching on the couch? I see a benefit in that, and that would like fill me up and I'd feel connected to you at that point. But if we're on opposite ends of the living room, on different couches, Doing a different thing. I'm struggling to have that connection. So, could we at least if we're peril plane, be close enough that we can actually touch a little while we're doing something? Perhaps we can give it a try. My initial reaction just thinking of the scenario or cogitating about the scenario is that the physical touch may Impart some additional sensory input that actually would make me exit the comfort. That is given by parallel play. But I'm open to trying it and we could see along with the fact that it is strict parallel play, there are no direct interactions nor bids for interactions and it has a set time limit. Hm Anything else? I'm just thinking. You're cogitating. I'm cognitating. Yeah, I mean, I think that would be helpful to give that a try in our own lives, and y'all can let us know what you do in your relationship or in anything you've tried or found that does works or doesn't. Because I want to be open to you and your needs and your desires, but again, if we're on separate couches, I don't see that benefit of per play versus you being on a couch and I'm upstairs. But it helps me understand it better from your perspective, how you explained it today. So I'm open to it, but I want you to be more open to, OK, let's sit on the couch and our feet touch, or Whatnot also. Indeed, so I think it is quite apparent to our listeners that we ourselves are on a journey of understanding through conversation and talking. So perhaps you are on a similar journey and this has brought some insights to yourself that you can cogitate about. And if so, leave us a comment, send us an email or text. And maybe there's a friend, family member or partner out there that you want to bring on the journey with you. And if that's the case, feel free to share this episode and the podcast, and they can begin that journey with you as well. So, from your friends at IH Talking, until next time, remember, it is only through talking that we begin the journey to understanding.