Self-Care versus Self-Indulgence

 Word of the Episode: Penitent

• Usage: Came up while studying Psalm 6 (one of the “penitential psalms”).
• Common Associations:
  • Hosts thought it related to humility, kneeling, or seeking forgiveness.
  • One recalled Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, where the “penitent man kneels before God.”
  • Also connected to penance.
• Dictionary Definition: Feeling or showing sorrow/regret for wrongdoings; repentant. As a noun, someone who repents.
• Etymology: From Latin paenitent- (“repenting”) → Old French → English. Related to penance.
• Fun fact: Appears in scientific term “penitent ethylene” (plants shedding leaves under stress, a kind of “repentance”).

Main Discussion: Self-Care vs. Self-Indulgence

• Self-care: Actions that restore or maintain long-term wellbeing (health, mental stability, productivity, relationships).
• Self-indulgence: Actions for immediate personal gratification, often without lasting benefits.

Simplified: Self-care = fixing / preserving health; Self-indulgence = pleasure/escape.

Examples Game (off the cuff):

• Watching a TV show → indulgence.
• Going for a run → care.
• Eating out → usually indulgence.
• Taking a bath → care.
• Lighting a candle → indulgence (for him, since he doesn’t enjoy candles).
• Glass of wine → indulgence.
• Reading a book / podcast → depends on topic, could be care.
• Driving with windows down → indulgence. (He loves this, she hates it.)

Key Insights

• Mom culture marker: Bath + wine = commonly labeled as “self-care.” Hosts argue that’s indulgence or even self-medicating, not true self-care.
• Self-care is incremental/long-term: Prevent breakdowns rather than patching after exhaustion.
• Self-indulgence is not “bad”—just not the same as care. The labels matter because people often justify indulgence using the language of care.
• Litmus test:
  • If it helps you function better for others (family, work, community) = care.
  • If it only benefits you in the moment, selfishly or superficially = indulgence.
• Gray Areas: Some activities (exercise, TV, PTO days) depend on intent and balance.

Personal Examples

• Her self-care: Waking up early before the family—quiet time for prayer, planning, preparation.
• Her indulgence: Soda, used for stress relief (“self-medicating” after hard days).
• His indulgence: Occasional drinks, pizza/ice cream, driving with windows down.
• Shared indulgence: Falling asleep watching TV together—fun bonding, but rarely “care.”
• His self-care: Exercise, reading/listening to books, keeping up on news, taking PTO breaks.

Podcasting: Care or Indulgence?

• They conclude podcasting leans toward self-care, since it adds purpose, creativity, and could benefit listeners—not just themselves.

Closing Thought

• The key distinction: Self-care benefits both you and others long-term. Self-indulgence benefits you short-term.
• Message to listeners: If you enjoyed the episode, share it with one other person—that’s good “self-care” for the podcast community too.

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Any views expressed on this podcast are those solely of the hosts and is for entertainment purposes only. None of the content is medical advice or financial advice.

Special thanks to Tim Wright aka CoLD SToRAGE for his permission to use the song Operatique.

Transcript

I Hate Talking: 0:29

Welcome to episode 72 of I Hate Talking. Hi everyone. So we'll jump right into our word or phrase of the episode, and I think there was actually a word that I used in a previous episode that I wanted to do as the word or phrase of the episode, but I have no idea what it was and I did not have time to go listen to our previous episode to find that. So we'll do a word that came up in conversation today, in fact, and that word is the word penitent. OK. So this came up because we were studying Psalm 6 and according to some theologians, Psalm 6 is one of 7 penitent Psalms. And I think both of us had some fuzzy idea on the word penitent and what it might mean, but we did not, and still did not look up the exact definition nor the etymology. Right, yeah. I mean, I feel like I could use it in a sentence, but I couldn't define it. Yes, and I think that would probably be similar for me. My particular memory of the word penitent is from Indiana Jones and the Final Crusade. I don't remember any of those shows. I remember the Disney ride though. Well, I do remember the Disney ride. I remember it was very bumpy and I actually was sort of sore after that. And that was when I was still young. So I don't know if I, my body could hold up to that today. But in that particular movie, there's a number of clues as they are entering into the cave system to try to find the holy grail, and one of those particular clues is that the penitent man will persevere through the particular challenges. And Indiana Jones solves that clue at the very last moment and spoiler alert, kneels and some blades or something go over his head because he says, quote, the penitent man kneels before God. Oh, OK. So that is how I would sort of think of the word penitent because of that particular movie occurrence of that word, where it has an aspect of humbleness or being bowed down before something or someone. And I also probably think it's related to the root word penance, where maybe you're repaying something for some particular wrongdoing. So if you are Penitent, you are humble in your particular outlook towards this person or thing that you are trying to be sorry or paying back for some wrongdoing. Yeah, that makes sense. I think of similar. I think about it being like asking for forgiveness or being sorry for things you've done. OK, so given that particular usage from our lives and sort of how we understand that, we'll look up the official definition, as well as the etymology. So from our favorite Oxford language dictionary, it defines penitent as quote, feeling or showing sorrow and regret for having done wrong. Repentant is a particular synonym and it actually can be used as a noun as well, and that being defined as a person who repents their sins or wrongdoings and seeks forgiveness. OK, yeah, so we were like on track there. Yes, I guess Indiana Jones was not really on track because he described it simply as humbleness and that being done through the physical action of kneeling. I can see there's a part of it, right, with, you need humility to repent. Yes. I agree. It's just not the exact definition. In that particular movie scene, I don't think. But is Indiana Jones supposed to be religious or Christian? No, not particularly. OK. Now, an interesting side note here as I'm searching for penitent etymology, there's another phrase that comes up, penitent ethylene, which I guess has something to do with plant growth and development and stress responses and Penitent ethylene can be used as a way to describe a plant's response to stress where ethylene production leads to a form of quote unquote repentance or corrective action such as shedding of leaves to conserve resources. Oh, So, just an interesting little use of the word penitent within a very scientific term. OK. So it comes from Latin and flows through Old French into English and it comes from two particular Latin terms, pay and and pay and tent. And again, I'm probably mispronouncing those but it basically literally means repenting. So penitent comes to mean something where you are repentant or repenting. And so I think that fits within the definition that we were talking about where someone is sorry or repentant for their wrongdoing. And within the Latin, I guess it can also more loosely be used to mean to cause regret or to feel regret, and that is a, again, a particular feeling that is being described. And then what we said at the start of the episode that penances may be the same root word. It is the same original Latin word in the beginning, pay and tier, and then went in a separate direction for a different Latin word and then that became used in the old French and Middle English as penances. So that is our word or phrase of the episode, penitent and still can't remember what the word of the episode should have been based on a particular word that I used last time, but Maybe we'll find that for next time or you, our listeners can suggest a word for us to dive into the definition and etymology. Mhm So now we'll move into the topic of the episode. Yeah, something I've been thinking about lately is the difference between self-care and self-indulgence. What would you think about those two? Yeah, I think self-care has become popular in more recent times where you're going to do things that are quote unquote for your own benefit so that you don't become burnt out or overly sad or depressed or whatnot. So one particular example that comes to mind is like if you take a quote unquote mental health day, it may not be a sick day, but You need a break from work and the normal routine, so you take that as a personal day and that would be sort of, I guess within the category of self-care versus self-indulgence where you're doing something purely for your own pleasure. And perhaps doing something that is, I guess, to use that word indulgent where you're indulging in something that is, again, probably a little bit more for your own pleasure and hedonistic in nature. So that would sort of be my initial reaction to those particular two terms. So I guess to categorize that more simply, perhaps self-care is trying to do something to fix something versus self-indulgence is for the pure enjoyment of something. OK, I'll give you a couple of things and you tell me self-care or self-indulgence, OK? Just for my own opinion, off the top of your head right away. Watching a TV show. Self-indulgent. Going for a run. Self-care. Eating out. I guess that one would depend on perhaps the motivation, but by default, I would say self-indulgent. Taking a bath. Self-care. Lighting a candle. Self-indulgent, but that's because I particularly don't really necessarily care for candles all that much, so I could go either way on that one too. Drinking a glass of wine. Self-indulgent. Reading a book. Depends on the style and topic of the book, I would probably lean more towards self-care. Listening to a podcast. Same, but would probably lean towards self-care. Driving with the windows rolled down. Self-indulgent. So, I mean, that's just off the top of your head, what comes to mind. And I feel like all that could be in both categories, theoretically. I started thinking about this topic because often in mom culture, especially, but all around. It says like self-care, and it'll be like a mom taking a bath with a glass of wine. Or like somebody recently, a famous person, I won't say they all that, but they were like, all you need to do is light a candle every day for self-care. And I think all those things can help, but I feel like the difference comes from self-care is like a long term. Something that is good for your body or your soul, or your mind, or self-indulgence ends up being more instant gratification. Like, it's not bad watching a TV show, but if you're going to just turn that on to shut down your brain, I'd consider that more self-indulgence. It's not actually long term helping you. That's just immediately Tuning the life out. Maybe, but what if you're watching like a National Geographic special on human psychology and things that you can do in order to create good habits. Yeah, I think that could possibly be self-care then. I think that's why I was saying there's like a lot of gray area within it. And it's just like more of the culture of like, I think self-care needs to be thought of long term, like, is this benefiting me? Is this gonna benefit my body, my brain, my interactions with people, or is this just an immediate I need to zone out, or I need this to calm down, or that sort of thing? So self-care is not calming down? I don't think necessarily immediate calm down. I think long term. Could be, but if you're going to something like, I'm stressed, I'm gonna pour a glass of wine. I don't think, yes, that calms you down, but that's not self-care. That is self-indulgence or that is self-medicating. -- So -- you're going against the mom culture by saying that taking a bath with a glass of wine is not self-care? Yeah, I don't think it is. I enjoy that. I do. Uh, I do a couple of times a year, uh, it's not a regular thing, but I enjoy it, but I do not think that long term that is something that's beneficial to me, but it is something that's relaxing and enjoyable. That's true. So what about the example that I gave as one of sort of the main culture ideas of self-care with a mental health day. I think it could be both. I think it could be self-care or self-indulgence. Part of it would probably be why you're doing it and also what you're doing when you're there. If you're calling off work and saying that I needed a self-care day, mental health day, but then you're just laying in bed all day. Is that really benefiting you long term? Maybe you need to sleep, maybe you're sick, or just so overwhelmed. But then once you get out of bed, what are you gonna do? Cause you can't lay in bed every day all day. So, if you need that break, take it. But this can't be a routine thing because that's not obviously long term helping you. Perhaps so we should never take breaks. No, I think you can, but again, the break is why are you taking the break? If your body, every night you sleep, cause your body needs to rest and recuperate. That is self-care. But does your body need to rest and recuperate for 15 hours a day? If you're a healthy average person, then no. That's true. So in that case, that would be self-indulgence if somebody's doing that over and over again as sort of a lifestyle. I think so. Yeah, I would probably tend to agree. I guess perhaps part of the issue is maybe in the high pressure, high demand society that we live in that these things become more prevalent because of that particular outlook on life where you have to perform at a certain level day in and day out that maybe there are increased breakdowns that require mental health days per se. And that is maybe why we're running into some of the gray area where how you treat those things or the necessity of them may vary from person to person as well as a output of the particular culture and society that one finds themselves in. Yeah, I can see that. And I wonder if people are doing self-care, like quote unquote, self-care properly, maybe wouldn't need those mental health days, or maybe you wouldn't need those things, cause you're not running till your body collapses. That's true. So perhaps self-care is incremental in nature and you should not be coming to the point of mental breakdown before you take a mental health day. Right. Yes, I suppose so. So then can the same idea be applied to the bath and wine thing? What do you mean by that? Well, I don't, I'm not in the culture per se, so. I have never really felt the need to do that, nor have even had that suggested to me. Nor have really any particular empathetic feelings towards a bath and candles and a glass of wine. OK. So is that a response to a high demand society lifestyle that then results in a breakdown or is it something that is more incremental in nature? I don't know, I could probably be both. I think that like, if you're doing it because you cannot calm down another way, like, I think there's something in your lifestyle, or the way you're handling it, that isn't right. If the only way that you can calm down at night is by taking a bath and pouring a glass of wine. And I don't think that's self-care. I think that that is Something else in your system and your life is out of whack and you're self-medicating in a way. And that falls within the category of self-indulgence then, I suppose. I think so. I don't think there's anything wrong with that and I think that everyone probably deserves some indulgence here and there, but I think that people use the term self-care and then they'll justify. Doing stuff that's more self-indulgent. Like you're gonna go to Target for self-care. It's not really self-care. It's enjoyable. That's true. I guess if you do enough penance, you can have some indulgences. There you go. There you go. I didn't think we were gonna be able to connect the topic in the word but yes we did. That's true. So the other way that I would sort of perhaps categorize these is that self-care, while the term is directed towards self, you're perhaps making yourself better for performance or the benefit of others in some form or fashion, whereas self-indulgence is purely selfish in nature. Yeah, I can see that cause I think that working out can be self-care. It's very important for your body and all. But, do you need to be in the gym for 4 to 5 hours a day? Probably not, that's probably more for yourself then. At that point, to self-indulge. So I think many things under the self-care category. could be very helpful and useful, but they could also be used inappropriately and used to overindulge. Yes, so continuing on that particular example, if you're spending 5 hours in the gym for your own personal reasons that perhaps could fall within the self-indulgent category, unless maybe you're like a bodybuilder and that's like your professional career and that's what you do for a living, but I think those are edge cases versus the normal person that is spending 45 minutes to 90 minutes in the gym to be healthy to have a Healthy lifestyle and a extended life span, so that they are a productive member of society and able to be there for their family and kids and provide for those that depend on them. Right, yeah. Cause if you're, instead of coming home, going to the gym and spending that lawn there, and you won't see the kids at all, you know, and then that's not benefiting our family, because then they'd never see you. So then is really the definition of self-care. Group care. Yeah, maybe. I mean, if you draw it out, because again, for the moms, I'm not trying to bash moms, but if they're not mentally taking breaks and they're exhausted, then it does trickle down to the family. The whole family then can struggle. I mean, anyone in the family, if they're struggling, then it trickles to everyone. But, so I don't think there's anything wrong with the mom saying like, hey, I need to take a break, or I need this or that, to get in the right mental space, so that then she can come back and care her for her family well. That's true. I think that is perhaps a good barometer or sort of litmus test for self-care versus self-indulgence is. And I've touched on it a little bit already, is that self-indulgence is going to be purely for yourself, whereas self-care is for yourself, but the long term goal is that you're more healthy and able to be a better member of society or your family or your workplace or whatever particular groups of people that you interact with. Right. Long term, does other people benefit from this also is what you're saying. Yes, and I think the term is important and that's something that you alluded to is it. For a very brief amount of time, where that would probably fall more within the category of self-indulgence versus a fulfillment of a long-term goal or a long-term benefit and that perhaps maybe falls within more of the self-care category. Yeah, I think so. So do you feel like you'd have to correct people when you hear this term now, or will you just leave it be? Well, I guess I can just direct them to this episode. I guess No, I don't think I would particularly correct them. Maybe if it's a very close friend that is. Perhaps describing things that don't quite align to how I perceive reality, I would perhaps intervene and give them my particular perspective, but I think in everyday life with just Acquaintances or when I would run up against this term in everyday life, I would not really feel the need to do any particular correction of the term. I'd sort of just write it off and go about my own life. Mhm. Yeah, I agree. I don't think I would really say much, but I don't think I tend to recommend self-care in general to people. So next time you see the meme on your social media sites, you're not going to write an angry comment and be like, -- this is not -- self-care. I've never done anything like that. No, I will not begin doing that now. -- That's not -- self-care. Or just post a link to this podcast episode. Yeah, it's OK. So, before we end this episode, I guess perhaps we can each give one example of our favorite or most effective, or both. Example of self-care and self-indulgence that we each use. OK. Oh, that's hard, just one. Yeah, I think you're either go to or you're again, maybe most effective that you find in either category. OK. So, my self-care probably overall. Through the years, is waking up earlier in the morning. I try to get out of bed before everyone else. That doesn't always happen, but I'm almost always awake before everyone else. And it's a really good time. I can just think about what I need to do. Looking ahead at the day, I spend time praying. I just am mentally getting ready, and then I often get up and we'll go read or go do other things. But even just that little bit of time in the bed before anyone else is talking to me or requiring anything from me. It's super helpful if I don't have it. I feel really rushed throughout the day and more irritable. OK, so that's your example of self-care. So it's interesting to note that when I think of examples, I actually more quickly arrive at self-indulgent examples. So I don't know what that says about me, but Well, more indulgence came into my head instantly when you suggested this. That I was like only one because there's a lot of, yeah, there's a lot of indulgence that pops in my head that I do. One that I'm trying to break is drinking soda. I love it and it's a calming thing for me, but I realized that like, it's not healthy, especially cause I drink it when I'm stressed. And I justify it like, oh, there's way worse things other people drink or do when they're stressed. But I still don't like that I have something like that. So, where I used to justify getting a soda on my way home from a difficult doctor's appointment. I'm trying to break that habit because that's not benefiting me, it's not benefiting our budget. Or my health or anything like that. It's just an immediate relaxing. Indeed. So I guess you were thinking of perhaps some of my personal routine or habits that I do when you were describing some of the examples like driving with the windows down. Oh yes, I hate that. Oh, I hate and do that. So is that self-care or self-indulgent then? -- That's what I -- was. I thought you'd say it was self-care. I think I said it was indulgence. You did. I was surprised. -- I fully expected you to say -- self-care. Well, maybe if you asked me 10 years ago, I would have said something different, but you knew the answer though. -- I -- get this time I'd better. OK, so for myself, I think self-indulgences will be perhaps. Having a drink every once in a while. So, for example, I just had an old fashioned. So that is something that I guess is self-indulgent. And I guess according to your mom groups could be self-care, but I would put that more in the category of self-indulgent. I don't particularly have things with food or soda. I occasionally will maybe enjoy pizza or ice cream. Those would probably be my two self-indulgent food groups. I guess driving with windows down, since we already talked about that one, would be another self-indulgence. I do enjoy that. Perhaps sometimes to the detriment of others, because they do not enjoy it, but we each have our turn with sometimes windows and sometimes air conditioning or heat, cause I will do it even in the cold of winter, right? Or just nothing. I don't need air or heat. I just need the windows up. So maybe your self indulgence is Windows up. No, that's definitely a self-care thing. cause that drives me insane and it's something about the sound. It hurts my ears. And then perhaps sleeping in, I don't do that as much as I used to, but I guess that would probably be perhaps one self-indulgence that sometimes I partake in and enjoy. I think together, our most common self-indulgence is watching TV. There's a lot of other things we could do at night, but we fall asleep watching TV together, and I enjoy, I'm not saying we should stop necessarily, but I don't think it really benefits anything. Yes, perhaps so. I think that if you watch television with a critical mind and and perhaps uncover certain plot things within even fictional stories that there can be some sort of intellectual benefit and then certainly like the example I mentioned with perhaps some scientific shows where you're learning something and can actually use some of those scientific concepts for your own benefit. That there's gonna be some self-care aspects to those. And then we've talked about in previous episodes, just the aspect of comedy, where if you're laughing, perhaps that is a bit of more of the self-care versus self-indulgence, but yes, I would agree that we are somewhat self-indulgent when it comes to a variety of TV shows that we sometimes watch. But you're right, it can be, and we can argue that it's a time that you and I spend together. You know, so it's like building our relationship, cause we talk about the shows we're watching and such. So, I can see how people would justify it both ways. And the same thing with comedy is, it can be really good for the heart and soul to laugh and all that. And just bring some levity to the situation. That's true. And then within the self-care category, perhaps exercise, I will always have a particular goal for reading or listening to books, uh, try to stay up on some news and things of that nature, and then we'll take PTO days or time off and make sure that I have a break when things are busy. So there are a number of responsibilities that we have and we've touched on those in previous episodes, but Making sure to take a break. Mhm. So, Podcasting. Where does that fall? I think it could be both. I suppose so. I mean, when we set out to begin our podcasting journey, I think we would have categorized it more within the self-care or perhaps within just the benefit of others being part of why we want to do this and to do something better with our time than just watching TV or being self-indulgent, so. As long as that definition still holds true, I guess we would put it in the self-care category. OK, there you go, or care for others and that's you, our listeners. So if you did like this episode, you can always subscribe to our podcast, share it with others, and leave a comment or send us an email or a text message. There are many different things that you can do, but the most important thing that you can do if you did like this episode is simply share it with just one other person. Yeah. That's good self-care. Indeed. So from your friends at IH Talking, until next time, remember it is only through talking that we begin the journey to understanding.