I Hate Talking

Interstellar Objects: 'Oumuamua, 3I-ATLAS, and more

• Stephadam • Season 2025 • Episode 76

Share episode

Send us a text

 Links to materials mentioned in the episode:


Word(s) of the Episode

  • ʻOumuamua
    • Hawaiian name for the first observed interstellar object (2017).
    • Meaning: “A messenger from afar arriving first” or “advance scout.”
    • Had unusual properties—possibly pancake-shaped, non-natural trajectory, and odd light reflections that led some scientists (e.g., Avi Loeb, Harvard) to propose it might be an artificial probe.
  • 3I/Atlas
    • The third confirmed interstellar object, discovered July 1, 2025.
    • Name breakdown: “3” (third), “I” (interstellar), “ATLAS” (Asteroid Terrestrial-impact Last Alert System).
    • Oddities observed:
      • Appears to off-gas methane based on color/spectral readings.
      • Its “tail” sometimes points toward the sun instead of away.
      • Shows unexplained accelerations—speeding up, slowing down, changing course beyond gravity’s pull.
      • Trajectory lies unusually close to the orbital plane of the planets.

Discussion

  • Alien Connection?
    • Avi Loeb suggests these interstellar objects could be probes from advanced civilizations, linking them to the Dark Forest Theory (a proposed answer to the Fermi Paradox).
    • Fermi Paradox: If alien life should exist widely, why don’t we see evidence?
    • Dark Forest Theory: Civilizations hide in fear that others will annihilate them; some may send probes to preemptively eliminate threats.
  • Alternative Views:
    • Could just be an unusually shaped or chemically different rock.
    • Only 3 interstellar objects have been observed—too small a data set to generalize.
    • Likelihood of danger is deemed infinitesimally small.
  • Hosts’ Take:
    • One host doubts alien life entirely (prefers theological explanation of humanity as unique).
    • The other finds it interesting but not worth worrying about—no control if it were dangerous.
  • Speculation:
    • What if aliens invited humans aboard—would you go? (Hosts conclude “not alone, only maybe with whole family, and only with proof of trust.”)
    • Playful talk of aliens celebrating Christmas, or whether to buy presents early if Earth were to be destroyed December 19th (closest approach).

Pop Culture Tangents

  • Netflix’s Don’t Look Up (mixed opinions on its ending).
  • Light detour into Hawaiian names and humorous restaurant memories.

Closing

  • They note how social media obsessions with “jumbotron scandals” drown out real, fascinating science.
  • Suggest listeners check out Avi Loeb’s book and recent paper.
  • Tease but skip over talking about Charlie Kirk, noting “everyone else is already covering him.”

Tone & Takeaway

  • Language lesson: Hawaiian terms like ʻOumuamua; technical naming of 3I Atlas.
  • Science lesson: Pareto principle revisited in practice—only a few rare objects spark most debates.
  • Life lesson: Balance curiosity with perspective—most things (like alien probes) are unlikely threats, but thinking them through can be fascinating.

---

Any views expressed on this podcast are those solely of the hosts and is for entertainment purposes only. None of the content is medical advice or financial advice.

Special thanks to Tim Wright aka CoLD SToRAGE for his permission to use the song Operatique.

I Hate Talking:

Welcome to episode 76 of I Hate Talking. Hi everyone. Now I guess our word or phrase is three eye atlas. Is that what we said it was going to be? I guess so. And tangently related to that is um mua mua, and then after that we'll be tangently. Yes, as in a tangent, as in something related adjacent in the same direction. OK. So there you go, -- we've got that bonus word the -- umuamua umuamua. -- I like -- that, yeah, that one's a fun one to say, sort of like humuhumu nuko ukuapua, uh, our favorite restaurant. That's true. It is interesting that some languages have very different words for things that are simpler to say in English because it's simpler to me to say trigger fish, but I guess maybe not for a native Hawaiian speaker. It's not as fun. It is not as fun. That is true. So I guess we'll look up Umuamua first to see what that etymology is, but it is basically the name that was designated for an interstellar object that passed through our solar system many years ago. So let's check that one first. OK. So in fact it is Hawaiian. So I guess the connection between Huahuma ukunukuapuaa and Aumuamua was correct. OK, but maybe quickly just explain what humuhumunukunu, oh my goodness, I can't even say it anymore. Say it again. -- You did a good job.humu ukunuka -- ua. -- That is a -- fish, yeah, trigger fish. I said that, yeah, and then it's also, it is also a restaurant in Hawaii. Is that what you're referring to, right? Well, we just said it and then moved on. So I was just saying, well, I was moving on because it was not our official word or phrase. It was a tangential word. OK. And I think I'm saying it wrong. I guess it's oh mua mua, but nonetheless. It means in Hawaiian, a messenger from afar arriving first or advance scout. And how do you say it again? Oh muamua mua. I've heard it said um ua ua as well, but I guess you'd have to ask a native Hawaiian. So if there's any listeners in Hawaii, you can advise on that. I don't think we've ever had a listener in Hawaii before. Maybe this particular topic will catch their interest and they can advise on the proper pronunciation. Yeah, that would be awesome. So that is the word omuamua -- and then the one that's been more recently in the news is 3 eye -- atlas. OK, so that means the same thing. Well, 3 eye atlas is not as clever as a name because the way that it breaks down is 3, the numeral 3 I. Dash Atlas, and the reason that it has the designation 3 is it is the third interstellar object that has been observed, the letter I for interstellar and Atlas because it was discovered by The ATLAS Organization, which stands for Asteroid Terrestrial Impact Last Alert System. That's a long name. It is. They had to combine terrestrial impact to make it into Atlas, so it does have a dash in their official name, asteroid terrestrial impact, last alert system, Atlas. OK. So, 3I Atlas is, I suppose, I guess our official word of the episode, even though it's not really a word, it is a combination of 3 different designations. The third interstellar object discovered by Atlas. OK, so this is a recent thing or this is from years ago. It was discovered on July 1st, 2025. Is it the thing that like blew up the sky? No, the sky seems intact to me and no, but like social media, people were like seeing something. Is that this and they did a movie about it called Don't Look Up. Oh, that's a good movie. Y'all should see it if you haven't. That's a couple of years old, but it's still good. Yeah, I guess it is right at this point in time. I didn't like it though. Did you? You just said it was a good movie and you said everybody should watch it and then you just said you don't like it. OK, that is, that is tricky. I loved it until the last two minutes and then I hated it. Yeah, is that a spoiler if I say I hated the ending? No, maybe it's a bit of a teaser, but you certainly can't say what the ending was, so that would be a spoiler. I, I like the ending. I mean it wasn't very like satisfying ending, but it was a thoughtful ending nonetheless but not satisfying -- that's -- true. OK. So I mean, just watch it and then turn it off for the last 5 minutes, and then you're not disappointed, right? I suppose so, but I don't think many people will do that. No, but I wish I did. So if you're like me, just turn it off and then in your head, it's a great movie. Yeah, I think it was still a great movie. I don't know. So, the reason that we were talking a little bit about 3I Atlas last time was because there were a number of things within social media that perhaps were more trivial in nature with some of the jumbotron antics, so to speak, but that 3I atlas actually has a number of curious oddities about it that make it interesting and that was one of the things that we mentioned that it has caught the attention of Avi Loeb. who works at Harvard and some of the other interstellar departments of physics and things like that, and he has taken an interest in actually co-authored a paper in regards to this particular interstellar object. OK, this is one specific object he's viewing, right? Not like a reoccurrence. Correct, yes, this is a particular object that is moving at extreme speeds through our solar system and for all ways that we can observe it, seems to have originated far outside of our solar system. OK, I'm following so far, whereas most objects that we observe in the solar system are. From some sort of debris from the asteroid belt or moons that we can observe or comets that have a very predictable pattern and will reoccur. But this one, as far as I'm aware, does not have any sort of orbit that would bring it back within the vicinity of Earth. Because it's too far and we can't track, cause it takes too many years to actually track it, or because it's just rogue. Yeah, I think Rogue is more apt of a description for it. It's not necessarily moving in an elliptical orbit, but more of a line straight through the solar system. So, I guess we can cover some of the particular oddities that have been observed and I suppose that there is maybe some debate on these and it is not entirely certain that some of these conclusions are based on observable evidence because it is a fast moving object that is in the solar scheme of things, relatively small. So, I don't have necessarily conclusive evidence, but some of the oddities include that it is off gassing what is thought to be methane because of the color and the spectrometry of the light that is visible. OK, and by off-gassing, you mean like emitting or Yes, like a typical comet that has the tail, whereas it is quote unquote melting as it gets closer to the sun, that it is producing gasses that are not normal. Uh, the other strange thing that they observed is that the quote unquote tail of the comet is actually facing towards the sun. So normally you would have that tail that is in the opposite direction of the sun because that is sort of the direction that it's burning off, so to speak, but this actually at certain times points towards the sun. -- It's -- burning toward, huh, OK. So is it because it's not going quickly? Is that why? So, this is also another thing is that it seems to be, based on the calculations, changing course and slowing down and speeding up. Weird. OK. I, again, I'm not an astrophysicist or anything like that, so I can't pretend to know a lot about this, but I feel like the closer you get to the sun, especially, The more the sun's orbit, right? Like, takes you in. So does this have to be a pretty big mass or something to be able to have its own trajectory? No, it's still relatively small. It's moving very quickly, and things that we launch into space like rockets to Mars or beyond, obviously have their own propulsion, but they can escape the gravity well of the sun and the earth and navigate accordingly around all the different planetary objects. I guess so. OK. So why do they think it's speeding up and slowing down then? Because I think they have calculated, you know, sort of where it should be based on its current trajectory and velocity. And it sometimes does not end up in the right spot. But why? Well, that is the theory of Avi Loeb, that this is some sort of interstellar visitor or alien life, so to speak, that Ouamua was the predecessor of, and this is a follow-up mission. OK, so his theory is that this planet, or this spaceship or something came a long time ago, and now it's coming back. Now, this would be an incremental object or vessel. So it came, now they're coming closer. Correct. Now, personally, I do not subscribe to necessarily any alien life. I think that humanity is unique in its existence, but it does have some very odd things that have been observed, like I've stated. That it seems like it could be just a very, very unique rock that is passing through our solar system, but it does have some very curious things about it. Would it be the same rock as they witnessed earlier, you think? Omama? Yeah, no. So you would propose that it's two separate situations, two separate things, but that the scientists are putting them together. Well, Avi Loeb associates them, and then actually, I believe he wrote a book on Omo Omoa. We'll have to put the link in the description on that as well because that itself had very many different oddities. They were not able to observe that one very well because it sort of had already passed by the ideal window when we could have observed it more closely. It was actually detected after it had already moved past Earth, but there were some indications that it was. Not a natural shape that it was actually in a disc shape or like a pancake shape or also had some very unique properties about it that again cannot be conclusive because these things are far outside of our range of calculating exact preciseness, but It also showed some unique properties when they were observing it after it had passed. OK, hmm, they think this has a similar properties, or why do they think it's the same thing? Well, I don't think anybody has proposed that it's the same thing, just that it's related. OK. So, I think in Avi Loeb's perspective and the way that even he named it, because I think he was the one that named Omu Aua is that this was a scouting mission, like a reconnaissance intelligence gathering, and this particular 3I atlas is the follow-up mission because I believe I'll have to reference the paper again, but it was either Avi Loeb or some of his peers believe that this. is a confirmation of the dark forest theory. OK, are you gonna tell us what the dark forest is? Yes, I can tell you what the Dark Forest is cause it's not probably something that is in everyday conversation. I've never had a conversation about it in my life. So, the dark forest theory is a particular theory that is in response to the Fermi paradox. So I suppose I might need to explain the Fermi paradox as well. Sure, we're having a lot of phrases today. This is great. I should have my yellow legal pad, writing it down. So the Fermi paradox is a particular idea that we should see more alien life forms, if alien life forms exist. So, again, this is predicated based on theories of evolution and ways that life comes about from nothing and so on and so forth that I would not subscribe to, but Those that do take that particular outlook have to come to some sort of logical conclusion that if it happened on Earth, that it would happen elsewhere, and then we would have signs of those things happening or ways that we would be able to detect other life forms and things of that nature. OK, I'm following you. What if hypothetically, not trying to throw you off your course here. But what, and this sounds insane even saying it out loud, but I'm gonna say it. What if we are the most intelligent form of life force? We're the most advanced in this group. Well, that is one of the answers of the Fermi paradox is that life becomes so advanced that it invents a variety of technology and weapons of warfare and nuclear devices and that basically they blow themselves up in an event of self-extinction before they develop ways to transit interstellar space. So basically, that actually is one of the answers to the Fermi paradox is that we become so technologically advanced, create weapons of mass destruction, and then all kill each other. OK, but I'm saying even farther than that, what if we have reached that before anyone else has? I feel like no one ever talks about that. Is that too haughty? Maybe we're the first. That is a particular response as well. I don't remember if that has a specific name, but That is one of the answers is that Earth is the first and we're not detecting anything else because everybody is behind us, because there would have to be a first in this theoretical situation, but right, because otherwise, why haven't they reached us yet? Everyone I hear talks about like they should reach us soon, but maybe we're the first and we're gonna reach them on Mars, cause there's stuff on Mars, right? There's that new life form, possibly they found. Well, that's if you believe they're on Mars and not just taking photos on the island in the middle of the South Pacific. I believe them. Well, they just recently released all the true color photos and it's not even red. Oh, don't say that. I don't know about that, but I also like being called the red planet, so. OK, circling back though, so hypothetically, if we are not the most advanced, I would argue we are the only life form. But if we are not the most advanced life form, what's next or what's happening? So there's some other theories out there where there's like federations of other life forms and they only make contact when certain societies have reached a -- certain level of technology -- or intentionally like they're waiting and watching, waiting and watching, so that's another theory. The one that I think Avi Loeb and I will have to confirm that he actually subscribes to this or if it was just some of his peers, but they subscribe to the dark forest theory, which is basically that there are other advanced alien societies out there, and they basically will strike and eliminate other societies that they detect in an effort of self-preservation before they can be attacked. So this particular term comes from the fact that space is essentially a dark forest where everyone hides and strikes without warning. Or they hide cause it's so dark, literally. I, this sounds like Star Wars, like stories, you know, and I mean, obviously, if you've listened to more than probably 30 minutes of this podcast, you would know where my worldview comes from. But I don't think there's aliens. It just sounds silly. Why would they wait till we reach a certain threshold? Why don't they strike if they want to rule the universe or the cosmos? Why wouldn't they strike when we're naive and dumb then? Well, they might have limitations as well, so they may not have detected us until a few decades ago and have launched their probes and missions, and this is as fast as they could go. OK. So I did confirm that this was a hypothesis that was proposed by Avi Loeb in a particular blog post in July regarding 3I Atlas that Quote, its silence could confirm this hypothesis where civilizations hide to avoid detection by hostile others. And then further, this particular article continues that Loeb argued that the object's trajectory and characteristics, though unlikely, were consistent with a disguised probe rather than a natural comet. So is this gentleman concerned that what they spotted in the sky is aliens that are going to come take us over, not take us over. Annihilate us And why Fear They would be fearful that they would be discovered and likewise annihilated. So they're afraid of what they don't know, so they want to get rid of the unknown. I suppose, I mean, maybe they detected that we have nuclear weapons and that's enough of a threat to them. How would they detect that so far away? Well, they would be more advanced because they are traveling in interstellar space than. What we would be able to. And what does he propose? What's the timeline to get here? If they're watching us and they know we have nuclear weapons, and so they come to us. To annihilate us before we can annihilate them. Like this is a game of battleship, but if they're doing that, when are they gonna arrive? So, one other interesting thing to note that I didn't mention earlier is that the trajectory of Three-Eye Atlas is like within, I believe, either 3% or 0.3% of the planetary orbit. So, As all the planets for the most part orbit around the sun in the same plane, the 3I Atlas object is traveling nearly along that same plane. So it's not going through the solar system from top to bottom. It's actually traveling along the same orbital plane that the planets are on around the sun. So it's vaguely orbiting like we are. Not orbiting, traveling along the same plane. OK, cause I saw something that was talking about like how many days to get to Mercury, Venus, Mars, all that, and some people were pushing back, cause they were like, well, Mars is closer than Mercury, so these people don't know what they're talking about. The person pushed back on like, well, the orbiting, when you talk about how fast it circles the sun and how many times it rotates, and actually at this time of year, yada yada yada, it's closer, even if it's physically on the books you look at is not closer, because they all are orbiting different speeds. So is that what you're talking about? This is orbiting-ish. Outside of our solar system. No, I'm talking about 3D space that the sun for purposes of this discussion is in the center of the solar system and the planets all orbit around it in the same plane. So there's not like a planet that is at 0 degrees and then another planet that's at 90 degrees and then another planet that's at 45 degrees. They're all relatively close to the same plane in orbit around the sun. This particular object 3I Atlas is on that same plane. But it's not closer to Pluto than us, or is it? So it will pass by a number of the interplanets. So according to this particular research by NASAscience.gov is that it will have its closest approach to Mars on October 3rd, the closest approach to the sun on October 29th, and then it will actually pass behind the sun. As it approaches its closest point to Earth, so we actually lose sight of it on the other side of the sun for a time being until it reappears and we will be able to see it on the other side of the sun in early December, followed by its closest approach to Earth on December 19th. 00, right before Christmas, so the world can get destroyed right before Christmas? So it's still pretty far away because it is 1.8 AU away from the Earth at its closest. So my question to you then, as a consumer is if this is happening six days before Christmas, should we celebrate Christmas a week early so we can enjoy our presents or not buy presents at all and use the money now, or is this not gonna affect us at all? I would say there's a 99.9% that this does not affect us at all, that it is some unknown rock formation that has not been previously observed. So of course it's something relatively new. After all, it is only the third of ever interstellar objects observed. So out of three different things that we have observed, the fact that it's a little bit strange. Well, there, I'm certain there's been more. Yes, that's true. I would say there has been more that there probably have been many more interstellar objects, but now we only have the technology to observe them. But now that we have the technology to observe them, it is only the 3rd, so probably there's going to be some anomalies when you only compare a population of 3. OK, so tell me, as you, Adam, how do you feel about this then? I think it's interesting. I think it's very curious that we have the technology to observe such things and be able to calculate it, and I do also find it interesting that some of the particular calculations that have been done do not match with observable evidence, so it's an interesting application of the scientific method. OK, but that doesn't answer my question. Are you worried that alien life forms are gonna come on Christmas and celebrate Christmas, the baby Jesus with us? No, not really, because if that is the case, then I will have so little power to do anything that it's probably not even worth worrying about. And again, I find that chance of that being true infinitesimally small. Would you befriend aliens? Well, I guess if they didn't try to blow me up, maybe. Like if they were like, hey, come to my planet and we're gonna do science on you and learn about your species, would you go? No. Why not? I have other things to do on Earth. What if they're like. We're gonna blow up Earth, but we're gonna take a couple of people with us. Would you go? Well, I guess if everybody went, like the whole family or something, maybe. But you wouldn't go if they were like, only took you alone? No, I don't think so. Hm. You'd let them blow us all up. What if they said, we'll protect your family if you come now? No, I, I don't think they don't, they don't have any way of proof of trustworthiness at that point in time. You blow up. They would need some sort of proof. Would you tell them about baby Jesus, witness to them? See, this is also why I don't think alien life exists because -- humanity -- is a bigger theological thing. That is true. Yes, I think humanity is the pinnacle of all intelligence because that's how it was created. Maybe they have an alien bible. Maybe so. So that's what's going on that maybe many of our listeners did not know about because you've been watching all the things going on in social media and the jumbotrons and so on and so forth, so. We'll put the link to the Avila book as well as the link to his particular paper, and you can check out more of those resources if you're so inclined. -- Are you gonna read it or have you read -- it? The book I've read, the paper I've skimmed. Should I read it? Yes, it's on Audible, so you can listen to it. OK. You think I'd benefit from reading it? It's interesting. OK. I know we haven't even talked about Charlie Kirk, but I guess everybody's talking about Charlie Kirk. So you can go listen to another podcast if you wanna hear something about Charlie Kirk, because I think we're about out of time. Yeah, we're out of time, but yep, all of the US as far as I'm aware, is talking about him. So there's plenty to learn about him or about the whole process. That's true. He was all about discussion. And talking. Mhm. So, from your friends at I hate talking, until next time, remember, it is only through talking that we begin the journey to understanding.